Swelling under the jaw

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Fire Sweep Ranch

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So, one of my recip cows seemed a bit off last weekend. Upon looking closer, I noticed a slight swelling under her jaw:
bjizhl.jpg

So I have been watching her closely, and she eats like a horse that needs their teeth floated. I brought her up into the barn, and put her in the chute to inspect it, and found it had a little heat, but nothing major. I thought maybe she bumped it on the hay ring, or injured it breaking into a new bale (they scratch their heads back and forth to remove the outer layer). I gave her a scoop of grain, and watched her closely. She ate very slowly. and dribbled a bunch. She drools a ton, so I know something is bothering her. I kicked her back out, and she went to the water. We have a Mirafount, so it has a small hole they stick their heads in to drink. I watched her for 15 minutes, she would put her head up to the hole, and not drink. She would smack away any lower pecking animals if they tried to get a drink, but would not drink herself. So, I went back to the barn, filled up an old mineral lick tub with water, and brought her back in the barn. She drank it until it was empty. So, obviously, her chin hurts enough to not stick her head in the Mirafount.
So I watched her all week. Excessive drool, I never saw her eating at the bale ring, and she came in each night begging for a scoop of grain. Then would drink deeply from the water in the big tub.
Well, I took her to the vet yesterday, because we just put an embryo in her last weekend, and she is raising a December embryo calf. Here are the pics I took of her at the vet's office. It was a little bigger, but not much.
1q4swg.jpg

2nvw9df.jpg

Vet tempted her, and did a close inspection of her jaw and mouth. He thinks she has a cut or splinter under her tongue, which is causing her tongue to swell and pain in the lower jaw. She does not have a fever, nor a bad tooth. So he gave her 200 ML IV Sodium Iodine, and Baytril 200 IV (I forgot to ask how much, but I would say at least 60 ml since it was a large syringe). He said she has a form of lumpy jaw, caused from an injury. He said I caught it early, and that they can get ugly.
Last night and today, not only is she drooling, but she has TONS of snot draining from her nose. Most of it is clear, but some of it is whitish. So, I hope I caught it early. The swelling looks smaller today, but I have to watch her closely. She might need retreatment he said if it does not go down. I sure hope not! Until then, she will come up to the barn to get grain and some alfalfa to make sure she does not loose condition.
 

branguscowgirl

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That's too bad, I hope she recovers well.

What was the purpose of the "IV Sodium Iodine"? I have never heard of it used before for that.
 

Lucky_P

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FSR,
My first thought, from what you described, and the photos, was 'wooden tongue'.
Only saw a couple of cases back in the day, but to me, the feel of that woody tongue is very characteristic! And! The cows almost went through the roof when I grabbed it - must be very painful...I can see why they can't eat...
Believe your vet is spot on with the diagnosis; IV sodium iodide and a broad-spectrum antimicrobial is the treatment; I never had to re-treat either of the cases I saw...or, at least, I wasn't called back...so I guess they recovered...
 

Quigly

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Lumpy jaw injuries, which this definitely looks like, almost never return to normal and it is rare for them to even shrink significantly. I would bet you see mild reduction in swelling and she has the lump for the rest of her life. 2-3 treatments of sodium iodide 2-3 weeks apart is ideal, but lots of cows only ever get one and they usually do fine. After treatment, the animal often lives out it's life alright without any other issues related to the lump jaw. However, in cases where teeth are involved, it becomes more complicated and you may deal with tooth root abscesses or other dental issues that keep the cow from eating properly.

Couple other things to note. Sodium iodide has historically been linked to abortions, however some of the more recent work done has shown a single high dose may not predispose a cow to abort. I avoid using it in pregnant cows, but that is probably overly cautious, I just hate to loose an entire year's production in the animal and have it be my fault. However, if you have a valuable embryo calf in her, I would consider avoiding anymore iodide treatments while she is pregnant, especially during early pregnancy when the fetus is most vulnerable. Additionally, the vet probably gave her Baytril 100. This is not at all your fault, but that was rather illegal, Baytril is the most highly regulated antibiotic routinely used in cattle and it is prudent to follow the rules with it. Baytril may only be given to cattle for approved diseases at the labeled route and dose. It is only approved for treatment or prevention of respiratory disease and is only labeled to be given sub-q, neither of which occurred. Vets have been misusing the drug for years, but the FDA is slowly cracking down on this, there are vets that have lost their licenses for misusing baytril. Once again, it's commonly done, and isn't your fault, but it is something to be aware of.
 

Willicd

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I have a heavy bred cow with the same symptoms but more swelling amd much more foaming/drooling and lost a cow last fall with those symptoms as well. I have treated her the best i can here but it sounds like a trip to the vet is in order. She appears to be loosing condition now. Does anyone have experience with johnes disease? Last time i checked her mouth, her tongue didnt appear swollen or injured.
 

cross_7

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Quigly":myzsrafc said:
Lumpy jaw injuries, which this definitely looks like, almost never return to normal and it is rare for them to even shrink significantly. I would bet you see mild reduction in swelling and she has the lump for the rest of her life. 2-3 treatments of sodium iodide 2-3 weeks apart is ideal, but lots of cows only ever get one and they usually do fine. After treatment, the animal often lives out it's life alright without any other issues related to the lump jaw. However, in cases where teeth are involved, it becomes more complicated and you may deal with tooth root abscesses or other dental issues that keep the cow from eating properly.

Couple other things to note. Sodium iodide has historically been linked to abortions, however some of the more recent work done has shown a single high dose may not predispose a cow to abort. I avoid using it in pregnant cows, but that is probably overly cautious, I just hate to loose an entire year's production in the animal and have it be my fault. However, if you have a valuable embryo calf in her, I would consider avoiding anymore iodide treatments while she is pregnant, especially during early pregnancy when the fetus is most vulnerable. Additionally, the vet probably gave her Baytril 100. This is not at all your fault, but that was rather illegal, Baytril is the most highly regulated antibiotic routinely used in cattle and it is prudent to follow the rules with it. Baytril may only be given to cattle for approved diseases at the labeled route and dose. It is only approved for treatment or prevention of respiratory disease and is only labeled to be given sub-q, neither of which occurred. Vets have been misusing the drug for years, but the FDA is slowly cracking down on this, there are vets that have lost their licenses for misusing baytril. Once again, it's commonly done, and isn't your fault, but it is something to be aware of.


When I read sodium iodide abortion was my first thought
Keepng Iodized salt out seems to help
 
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Fire Sweep Ranch

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I am happy to report she is just about back to normal tonight! She gobbled up her grain in seconds, and was found eating hay out of the hay ring tonight! Her swelling is still there, but 1/4 of the size. The vet was well aware of her bred status (just two weeks), but the risks were worth saving the cow. I saw the bottle, and I am pretty sure it said Baytril 200, but when I go in next week to pay the bill I will verify (I was stressed and worried about the cow, and forgot to bring my checkbook or take notes while I was there). I trust my vet, and he is well aware of our herd and what we do over here. He is the most strict vet I have ever worked with.
I am just happy she is eating normally, not frothy mouthed nor was she drooling. In a week we will know if she stuck or not, but I will not be disappointed if she does not since her condition was compromised.
 

branguscowgirl

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Willicd":3srvi0t8 said:
I have a heavy bred cow with the same symptoms but more swelling amd much more foaming/drooling and lost a cow last fall with those symptoms as well. I have treated her the best i can here but it sounds like a trip to the vet is in order. She appears to be loosing condition now. Does anyone have experience with johnes disease? Last time i checked her mouth, her tongue didnt appear swollen or injured.
:welcome:
Sure sounds like you need to have your cow looked at ASAP before you loose another one.
Good luck!
 

Lucky_P

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Kris,
My experience with Woody Tongue was similar - fairly rapid resolution.
Have never seen a case of Lumpy Jaw; can imagine that resolution and outcome are worse, as it's an infection in the bone(bacterial osteomyelitis), rather than just soft tissues affected - and different bacteria, to boot.
 
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Lucky_P":1gh7z73a said:
Kris,
My experience with Woody Tongue was similar - fairly rapid resolution.
Have never seen a case of Lumpy Jaw; can imagine that resolution and outcome are worse, as it's an infection in the bone(bacterial osteomyelitis), rather than just soft tissues affected - and different bacteria, to boot.
I think you are right Lucky! I will have to ask my vet when I go in if he is there... He might have mentioned it and I did not catch it. But she looks good now, no drooling and eating normally. I am just happy she is back to herself!
 

milkmaid

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Lucky- I haven't seen Woody Tongue yet, but a couple cases of Lumpy Jaw. One case (5 month duration, waiting for her to calve) I owned and treated (250 mL NaI IV q 7 days x 3 weeks, and a fourth dose of 250 mL NaI IV 3-4 weeks later) with permanent resolution. The lump never regressed but 5 years later it hadn't increased either. I've heard sodium iodide hasn't been proven to cause abortions... I ought to look through the research and see for myself, but Important Veterinarians who should know have told me there isn't a correlation. For what that's worth. :p
 

Toad

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I've got a cow with lumpy jaw. My vet says its advanced enough he doesn't recommend treatment and recommended selling her as a butcher cow. She doesn't have any signs of discomfort just the lump under her jaw. We waited until she raised her calf a bit and now I'm ready for her to leave. My question for those who know more about this is will lumpy jaw have any effect on the rest of her body? How badly will I be docked at the sale barn. If it wouldn't impact the meat and if I'm not going to get much out of her I would consider making a bunch of hamburger.
 

skyhightree1

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Toad":cjzqrxrp said:
I've got a cow with lumpy jaw. My vet says its advanced enough he doesn't recommend treatment and recommended selling her as a butcher cow. She doesn't have any signs of discomfort just the lump under her jaw. We waited until she raised her calf a bit and now I'm ready for her to leave. My question for those who know more about this is will lumpy jaw have any effect on the rest of her body? How badly will I be docked at the sale barn. If it wouldn't impact the meat and if I'm not going to get much out of her I would consider making a bunch of hamburger.

selling as a slaughter cow I doubt very serious you will get docked much if at all as long as the rest of her body condition is good. Seeing as the only meat that would be potentially affected is the tongue. IMO shes worth more at the barn then the burger you will get. You already have one to butcher you can only eat but so much meat man :)
 

cross_7

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We used to get lumpy jaw regular when feeding cotton burs
After grinding them helped quite a bit
If we caught it while it was soft you could lance it and let it drain along with sodium iodide
If it was hard you could give them the sodium iodide and it would soften in a few dys to a week and then lance it.
 

Toad

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skyhightree1":7v9ez3uo said:
Toad":7v9ez3uo said:
I've got a cow with lumpy jaw. My vet says its advanced enough he doesn't recommend treatment and recommended selling her as a butcher cow. She doesn't have any signs of discomfort just the lump under her jaw. We waited until she raised her calf a bit and now I'm ready for her to leave. My question for those who know more about this is will lumpy jaw have any effect on the rest of her body? How badly will I be docked at the sale barn. If it wouldn't impact the meat and if I'm not going to get much out of her I would consider making a bunch of hamburger.

selling as a slaughter cow I doubt very serious you will get docked much if at all as long as the rest of her body condition is good. Seeing as the only meat that would be potentially affected is the tongue. IMO shes worth more at the barn then the burger you will get. You already have one to butcher you can only eat but so much meat man :)
I do have a steer that will go to the butcher this spring but I'm only getting one quarter. I've sold 2 quarters and I trade a quarter of beef for a 25 acre patch of pasture. I kept a half last year and between us and my inlaws we have almost finished it off.
I might take this cow to one of the local sales and bring her back if she goes too cheap. I've just seen them discount a cow for some pretty stupid stuff before.
 

Toad

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cross_7":349gyzyp said:
We used to get lumpy jaw regular when feeding cotton burs
After grinding them helped quite a bit
If we caught it while it was soft you could lance it and let it drain along with sodium iodide
If it was hard you could give them the sodium iodide and it would soften in a few dys to a week and then lance it.
mine is hard as a rock. The vet says I will not get hurt much at the sale but I've seen the buyers let each other have a deal before. :lol:
 

branguscowgirl

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I am still wondering about the roll "Sodium Iodide" plays in the treatment of this specific bacteria. I am reading that it has antibacterial qualities, but why is it the drug of choice for this particular infection? Does anyone know?
 

Quigly

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From what I recall of the drug, no one is sure what the mechanism of action is of sodium iodide. It is the treatment of choice for lumpy jaw and wooden tongue, but not used to treat much else as far as specific bacterial agents go. It's been claimed in the past that it acts on the soft tissue around a lesion and kills the infectious organisms indirectly through that mechanism and that it in itself has minimal antibiotic properties. However, I would say that is unlikely since it is one of the most commonly used surgical scrubs due to its ability to kill bacteria. It also has antifunal properties and is an effective treatment of ringworm in cattle as well as a number of other fungal disease in animals.
 

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