Super Duper wf Simi X Replacements ?

[Stocker Steve]

I have been using angus over Hereford for a while to produce F1 replacements, and have been happy with the result. Recently I have been looking at some Simi stock, and starting to wonder is a moderate Simi bull like In Dew Time would make better cows. Any experience here?

 

[Supa Dexta]

I've never liked hereford.. ever.

There I said it.

edit: I had a big post written out, but its not even worth the hassle to argue it with the die hard hereford fans stuck in the hayday. Are there some good herefords? Sure. Are there many good ones? Nope, not what there should be for the scale of what the breed once was, it got left in the dust.

 

[Till-Hill]

I have been using angus over Hereford for a while to produce F1 replacements, and have been happy with the result. Recently I have been looking at some Simi stock, and starting to wonder is a moderate Simi bull like In Dew Time would make better cows. Any experience here?

Our IDT cows have been very poor uddered. And most of them had tick Hereford in them. I'd go for more of the gateway type Cattle along with Hooks. Also run to Harmony to Oak Meadow Farms and look at their stock. Some great Simmental Cattle there. I think you will like the Simmental better than the Hereford cross Cattle.

 

[Lucky_P]

I'm with T-H; much prefer the Hooks/Gateway(GW)/Wilkinson(WS) lines. Have been stacking Hooks Shear Force 38K in our herd by using mostly sons & grandsons over the past few years.

That said, it's been hard to find a good white/blaze-faced Simmental sire that pushed all - or even most - of our buttons; most that have what I like/want are solid-color; many of the blaze-faced bulls just don't get it done for me... low growth or low docility, etc.
We did use an IDT grandson heavily last year, trying to put some white faces back into the mix; PRS Blazin Hot W192. We're really liking the calves we got - good growth out of steers and heifers alike - and he did throw more white than any other SM sire we've used in a while. Will have to wait a while to see how the daughters pan out as cows.
Have several Long's Shear Pleasure daughters that are coming along well; some will calve in March... white-face not as prevalent with the LSP calves as it has been with the Blazin Hots.

 

[angus9259]

I have been using angus over Hereford for a while to produce F1 replacements, and have been happy with the result. Recently I have been looking at some Simi stock, and starting to wonder is a moderate Simi bull like In Dew Time would make better cows. Any experience here?

If I wasn't doing registered angus for seedstock, this is what I but be running at my place too. The only problem for me would be in my area the blaze faced calves seem to take a hit. For me personally I might use the simi as a terminal cross and not keep the calves for replacements and use simi on my hererfords and keep my base herd F1s. All that said, this is not my area of expertise nor are simi bloodlines so i can speak to specific animals but what I always kinda thought this concept might work well.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I apologize. I misread the original post slightly. Good luck with your plan steve.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Our IDT cows have been very poor uddered. And most of them had tick Hereford in them. I'd go for more of the gateway type Cattle along with Hooks. Also run to Harmony to Oak Meadow Farms and look at their stock. Some great Simmental Cattle there.

Thanks.

Wife has family in Preston.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'm with T-H; much prefer the Hooks/Gateway(GW)/Wilkinson(WS) lines. Have been stacking Hooks Shear Force 38K in our herd by using mostly sons & grandsons over the past few years.

Like them because ?

 

[Till-Hill]

Steve the GW and Hook Cattle and the WS Cattle are easy feeding moderated framed and are true cows. Alot of these other Simmental Cattle cow families started out with show cows. River creek Farms is another one I see good things from

 

[Lucky_P]

What Till-Hill said... though I can't speak to the feeding aspect...
Most of the bulls coming out of those programs bring to the table: good calving ease, better than breed-average growth, good maternal, good udder structure, good docility scores, above average marbling/ribeye, breed-topping API/TI.
Good, balanced performance across the board...they may not be flashy...may not have big hair or freaky neck extension...but that's not what I'm breeding for.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'm with T-H; much prefer the Hooks/Gateway(GW)/Wilkinson(WS) lines. Have been stacking Hooks Shear Force 38K in our herd by using mostly sons & grandsons over the past few years.

So when I scan the Genex offerings I see:

Lots of WS in the red bulls, and in All Around. I used some High Stakes semen last year.
Only Hooks in Graduate (son) and Beef King (grandson). I used a lot of Graduate last year.
Am I missing some?

 

[Till-Hill]

Steve we got our first High Stakes calf this fall, come real early and has been growing. 4 more coming this spring.

This bull is on my radar just have not pulled the pin on him yet. http://genex.crinet.com/beef/index.php? ... 55&lang=EN

Can you only run Genex or I know Select Sires and ABS both are in your area?

http://www.selectsiresbeef.com/index.ph ... d=SimAngus

http://www.selectsiresbeef.com/index.ph ... d=SimAngus

Our best calf was a Robust this year. Retained him as a JR Herdsire. His Momma will be bred/flushed to Substance this year

 

[Lucky_P]

First foray back toward the Simmental side, we used Dikeman's Sure Bet... just didn't get many heifers; still think about going back to him. Since then, been using mostly Shear Force sons/grandsons:
Have used Triple C Singletary - really like the daughters, and the steers were top-flight; his full sib, Triple C Bettis... extreme calving ease, but the calves had no grow; granted, they were all out of first calf heifers, but... none stayed.
Long's Shear Pleasure left some nice heifers and some good calves. Hooks Pharoah 16P...limited use, a few decent calves out of first-timers; all steers. WS All In W111... got a couple in the fall group, and a bunch of heifers due to him in the spring...first calves are long-legged, slender, came really easy, growing well... but...they're ugly ducklings...hope they improve as they get some age on 'em.
Used quite a bit of CLRS After Shock this fall... on heifers and few cows... we'll see how they stack up a year from now.

Almost half the fall calf crop this year was by PRS Blazin' Hot W192... really nicked well with most of the cows we bred to him.
Farm manager(wife) has a small supply of JF Milestone 999W that she's using on 'special' cows... that's probably what she's most excited to see hit the ground this spring and next fall.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Where do you like milk epds to be Lucky?

 

[Lucky_P]

I like 'em as low as I can get 'em, SD... but I've kind of dropped off of paying all that much attention to them, anymore.
'Spring'herd here does it all on grass, 'Fall' herd calves on grass and is past peak lactation before we pull 'em in and start feeding...so, if they were gonna fall out due to 'too much milk'... they'd do it, regardless... but there've been no attritions here in the last few years that look like failure to breed due to excessive milk production on minimal to moderate inputs.
Most 'opens' here are generally in good condition...some have left recently due to udder issues from genetics far back in the past, and the moderate milk Angus sire who walked the pastures for the past 8 years...wasn't an udder-fixer, came close to being a destroyer.

Angus...I prefer a milk below 30...but I'm hardly using any Angus sires.
Truth be told, I hardly look at milk epd on Simmental or Shorthorn sires, anymore, but if I'm comparing and all else is comparable, I'll go with a lower milk epd.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Ok. I just noticed most names mentioned above were lower milkers. Most of mine fall in the high teens or low 20s which put them about the halfway point for breed avg up here - fine by me! (sim)

 

[Lucky_P]

Hmm. I'd been minorly concerned about what I'd considered to be the HIGH milks most of those bulls were carrying.
I'd like to think that we're a 'low-input' sort of operation, so I'm not pursuing high milk epds - but as I said earlier, I've stopped worrying much about them.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Depends on what high is.. But several of those bulls are in single digits. Up here around a 21 is 50% breed avg.

Which is:
<16= bottom 75%
21=50%
>24= top 25%

For Canadian sim breed avg. And as mentioned most of mine hover high teens /low 20s, which is why I noticed.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

I like to try and keep the milk EPD's of ours in the 20's. Yes, several AI Simmental bulls available with low milk EPD.

 

[Lucky_P]

Hmm. Like I said... I don't place much emphasis on Milk epd as a selection criterion for SM sires anymore... hadn't pulled up my bulls list and compared, 'til today...
Yeah, there's one in my group with a single-digit milk(8.4), two below 20 (13.8 & 16.8)... but the rest are mostly in the mid to high 20s...with one at 42.2.
That highest Milk bull is bred mostly to ANxSH 1st calf heifers; the likelihood that any heifers from that mating will be retained is minimal - they're intended, from the outset, to be 'terminal' feeder calves... and I rarely have a heifer out of a first-timer that 'makes the cut' to stay.