Stupid farmers and ranchers

[Nesikep]

Oh I certainly did enjoy the "free speech zone". I agree that if there would be any sort of *real* beef shortage, the borders would open up in a big hurry.

You gotta say the media isn't really on our side.. they're on big brother's side... they'll give us a pat on the back as long as our interests coincide with big interests and dot.gov, If we stray from there, we'll be villainized pretty quickly in the pubic's eye

 

[HDRider]

Americans are not effective with protest. Name one since MLK that was.

Second, independents business people, are too,,, independent.

Market is market, and prices are prices and they can be devastated with forces bigger than us..

 

[inyati13]

We are a stupid lot, we want to take on the feds with our guns against a party that has drones that can launch a Hellfire missile. Sorta stupid aint it.

You folks want to make a difference. Here how. You hit em in the pocketbook. Hold back your calves and grain. That will throw those futures market into a tail spin. Billions of dollars would be lost. Doesnt mean that you couldnt sale your product at a later time, but when you screw up the timely manner of delivered products the middleman takes a huge hit.

For those of you that say this is BS, I will cite two examples. Back in the drought of 93 or 94 cant remember witch one. Prices for calves here in Texas were at a all time low and just kept going lower. Cattlemen here by word of mouth, decided not to take calves to market for about 10 days. Prices went up 10 cents a pound!!!! The final example would be OPEC.....Look at the price of oil before and after Opec"s formation.

So fella's the balls in your court, you have the web to get the word out and you have the food both walking and growing on your land.Armed conflict withe the Feds is a fools folly. Food prices that are 3 to 4 times higher than now, will bring the feds to their knees begging for mercy

I do not know the details about this "Rancher Conflict" in Nevada. I lived in Colorado, Wyoming and Montana from 1980 to 2010. Wyoming is about 80 per cent public land. Montana is about 30 per cent public land. I hunted on BLM land on a regular basis. I have these comments:

First, it is the mode of operation for a government enforcement agency to respond in full force in these high visability cases. Credibility is "everything" in enforcement. Even when public sentiment is against it. I was involved in a case where they published cartoons of us wearing Gestapo boots and Swastikas arresting a guy driving a mule. That guy had us penned down for the better part of an hour with a high powered rifle. It was after that when a full force response was made.

Second. I do not know the details, but I do know there are numerous examples of abuse and misuse of grazing leases, including non-payment, etc. I remember a case not far outside Casper, Wyoming where the rancher routinely chased off pronghorn antelope hunters like he was the deed holder when in fact, he just had a grazing lease. If out-of-state hunters paid him, he would let them hunt. I was chased off BLM land while hunting coyotes in Montana (Up where Oldtimer lives in Milk River Country). The guy was a Freeman and did not recognize the federal government. Very convenient for him so he didn't pay his grazing fees. He would not even look at my BLM map. Why does "Freeman" dogma only apply to him and not the rest of us? I was a "free" man myself, exercising my rights in a lawful and respectful use of public land. I called Billings BLM and reported the incident. They told me I was lucky that I had not been hurt or killed.

I don't know about this case and maybe things have changed for the better but when I was out west, some ranchers abused their grazing leases. They were cheating the ranchers who pay their grazing fees. Some are extremely arrogant when they meet you on foot but put up a good performance when they step in front of the camera.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You forget that about 1/2 are okay with big brother in their underwear drawer- so they wouldn't participate and laugh at the better market. Too many producers sell based on timing of the cattle and forage, not the market. If they could hold them longer, you wouldn't see the seasonality of trading.

Second, beef is not oil. Beef is one of many protein options- gets expensive, people just switch. It is really easy and done all the time. Those that run big brother already want you gone (if you don't know the origin of the food pyramid, it was created to limit animal protein intake by a vegan surgeon general, and the science that animal fat was healthier for you was burried for over 50 years), so if you hold out and hurt yourself, even better. There is also the option of increased import. Again, Beef is not oil of the 70's. Oil is the cheapest energy source by far. You can increase cost quite a bit and it is still the most popular and cheapest energy.

It isn't bright to think that this will be handled with an attempted interruption of beef supply. The revolution wasn't won by refusing tea entry. It took guts to stand up to tyrany. If you don't have em' why make fun of those that are doing your dirty work?

By the way, did you also enjoy the little marked off free speech zone? What are we going to do, show them what we're made of by not talking and count that as a win for freedom?

:hide:

 

[HDRider]

I thought we were talking about ways to improve market conditions long term.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I thought we were talking about ways to improve market conditions long term.

Excuse me deleted it for you

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

No this thread was started to talk about how to control the markets to slap the feds around a little with out getting shot.

 

[HDRider]

No this thread was started to talk about how to control the markets to slap the feds around a little with out getting shot.

You are right. I went back and read the first post.

 

[greybeard]

Anyone who thinks the feds won't shoot you for with holding a commodity of "national security" stature off the market is deluding themselves.

 

[TexasBred]

Well, I was going to jump in but everyone else beat me to it. What I was going to say is it will never work because no one would believe it would work and therefore not participate. Got to organize and participate 100%. Give you two examples (one of which has already been mentioned - OPEC) and the other is what Martin Luther King did for the civil rights movement.

I'll be brief. 60 years ago I went to town with my Grand Dad on a wagon loaded with tomatoes. When we got to the tomato shed they were only paying $0.03 per pound which grand dad refused. They told him to take it or leave it. Grand dad pulled the gate out of the wagon and hollered "getty up" to the horses and dumped the whole load out on the ground. The folks that had not unloaded yet followed suit. Next week the price of tomatoes went up to $0.08 a pound, where the price should have been in the first place.

Don't underestimate the power of "collective bargaining" and I don't mean unions either.

Did dad figure out whether he made or lost money by dumping the tomatoes and getting nothing for them?

 

[HDRider]

Don't you expect all those getting that renewed higher price pitched in and compensated Dad for his loss on their behalf?

 

[greybeard]

Well, I was going to jump in but everyone else beat me to it. What I was going to say is it will never work because no one would believe it would work and therefore not participate. Got to organize and participate 100%. Give you two examples (one of which has already been mentioned - OPEC) and the other is what Martin Luther King did for the civil rights movement.

I'll be brief. 60 years ago I went to town with my Grand Dad on a wagon loaded with tomatoes. When we got to the tomato shed they were only paying $0.03 per pound which grand dad refused. They told him to take it or leave it. Grand dad pulled the gate out of the wagon and hollered "getty up" to the horses and dumped the whole load out on the ground. The folks that had not unloaded yet followed suit. Next week the price of tomatoes went up to $0.08 a pound, where the price should have been in the first place.

Don't underestimate the power of "collective bargaining" and I don't mean unions either.

Did dad figure out whether he made or lost money by dumping the tomatoes and getting nothing for them?

It wasn't about the money.

 

[melking]

As much as I enjoy a rousing speech about tyranny I want to put my :2cents: in. The only way to effect any long term change is to work within the system to change it. Great movies are made and books written about how the little guy fights the big guy and despite insurmountable odds comes out on top. I call Bull Sh1t. You cannot fight city hall on any longer term situation and win. You can only join them and change them from inside.

 

[TexasBred]

Well, I was going to jump in but everyone else beat me to it. What I was going to say is it will never work because no one would believe it would work and therefore not participate. Got to organize and participate 100%. Give you two examples (one of which has already been mentioned - OPEC) and the other is what Martin Luther King did for the civil rights movement.

I'll be brief. 60 years ago I went to town with my Grand Dad on a wagon loaded with tomatoes. When we got to the tomato shed they were only paying $0.03 per pound which grand dad refused. They told him to take it or leave it. Grand dad pulled the gate out of the wagon and hollered "getty up" to the horses and dumped the whole load out on the ground. The folks that had not unloaded yet followed suit. Next week the price of tomatoes went up to $0.08 a pound, where the price should have been in the first place.

Don't underestimate the power of "collective bargaining" and I don't mean unions either.

Did dad figure out whether he made or lost money by dumping the tomatoes and getting nothing for them?

It wasn't about the money.

Seems to me it was ALL about the money. Betcha within 2 weeks price was back down to $.03 due to oversupply. But we won't hear that part of the story.

 

[greybeard]

I'd bet my last $1 it wasn't about the $.
it was about being controlled and manipulated.
Some will accept it, can be bought--most not.

 

[TexasBred]

I'd bet my last $1 it wasn't about the $.
it was about being controlled and manipulated.
Some will accept it, can be bought--most not.

And greed rules the world often driving both seller and buyer. "I'm not screwed unless I think I'm screwed". He may or may not have got his $.08 a lb. next time but he would have dam sure picked up ever single one of those tomatoes he dumped too before he left. People talk on here everyday about never negotiating a price once they set it. Works both ways.

 

[skyhightree1]

. People talk on here everyday about never negotiating a price once they set it. Works both ways.

I negotiate prices all day everyday... When I quote someone I have a tendency to be high and talk to them I come down so they feel they got a deal and im right where I need to be

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

. People talk on here everyday about never negotiating a price once they set it. Works both ways.

I negotiate prices all day everyday... When I quote someone I have a tendency to be high and talk to them I come down so they feel they got a deal and im right where I need to be

And what do you do when the unsuspecting doofus you're quoting takes your initial bid?

 

[skyhightree1]

. People talk on here everyday about never negotiating a price once they set it. Works both ways.

I negotiate prices all day everyday... When I quote someone I have a tendency to be high and talk to them I come down so they feel they got a deal and im right where I need to be

And what do you do when the unsuspecting doofus you're quoting takes your initial bid?

tell them i will discount their price if they let me put one of my jobs completed by my business signs up for a month and drop the price down to where I originally wanted it to be. :lol: I have never had anyone refuse yet now that you said something TT it will happen.

 

[TexasBred]

. People talk on here everyday about never negotiating a price once they set it. Works both ways.

I negotiate prices all day everyday... When I quote someone I have a tendency to be high and talk to them I come down so they feel they got a deal and im right where I need to be

I know a lot of people that do that Sky...buying and selling. Never take the lst offer...make them come down a bit and they'll leave thinking they got the very best deal possible. But others have said at the mention of the word "negotiate" they walk away.