Striving for Low Costs and Sustainability

[IluvABbeef]

That's what my goals are. (Still got a few years to go before these plans are implemented, so right now I'm sounding like the type of person that's all talk and no action. )

How to put them into place will, ironically, cost me a fair bit to get into place. Someone was quoted to have said, in one of the threads on this here beginners board, that raising cattle was a rich man's reality and a poor man's dream...well, guess that means I'm a poor "man". ;-)

So basically what I want to do or hope to do is, first and foremost, change the handling facilities design to better manage cattle with much less stress and danger to the handler.

Second, I want to fence off the swamp area that is in the main corrals, fence it off completely so that swamp grasses can establish themselves like out in the older pasture. The part that is closest to the barn would be one of the main corrals, and the other part on the other side of the swamp (since this swamp divides the back corral into 2) convert that to pasture. Manure piles'll be gone by the time I get to wanting to seed that part. Other parts that are also swamps should be fenced off too. I learned recently that those swamp areas or low spots that really like to collect water in spring runoff retain their quality in times of drought, and can be grazed off a little bit at odd times.

Third, crop land is converted to pasture/hay. Both hay and pasture areas would be not segregated into which is for hay and which is for pasture, because with the type of grazing I want to have (primarily MIG), pasture left over would be cut and baled for winter bale grazing. (Think about how much land I have I am able to use when I start: 2 quarter sections!) All hay/pasture sections are fenced off (obviously), as well as the more obvious swamps on there. Haven't decided whether to section off different parts of one quarter section into different pastures, though it sounds to be worth it, considering the MIG systems to be used. Primary fertilizer will be the cow patties and legumes.

As for cattle, I think my last post of what I wanted to do still reside: buy a few 3-in-1's, keep replacements, build up herd to be large enough to start crossbreeding, cull for temperment, udders, fertility, conformation, BCS, etc., AI first few years or so (thinking about leasing bull option, possibly), cows fed grass only (no grain whatsoever), 60-90 day calving season, 50-60 d breeding season (too long?), what time of year still debatable....probably early spring as nature intended...maybe background calves, dunno about preconditioning...preg check? probably can do that myself...what else did I miss?

Oh yeah breed: maybe shorthorn Maybe cross with herf, or...red angus...wanna have some breed that is moderate framed, not too big (not the big framed girls that weigh >/= 1600 lbs), is an easy keeper that raises a soggy calf and has good temperment and great feed conversion with the type of forage I'm putting them on.

Anyway, anything anyone sees amiss or whatever let me know, I got a thick skin. (sorry for the long post btw)

 

[dun]

cull for temperment, udders, fertility, conformation, BCS, etc.,

More productive to select for this on the fornt end then do it later on

 

[Starting late]

I am thinking along the same lines you are. Frost seeding clover, no-tilling rye in fall, etc to improve forage. I baled some volunteer wheat and when I feed it I get wheat reseeded by the cows! I am seriously considering trying some South Devons in my breeding program. They originated in England and were bred to do well on pasture alone. Of all the breeds I have tried so far the Hereford cow/Angus bull baldies are the best gainers on pasture. Hereford cows are easy to deal with and low maintenance. Saving your own seed like the old timers did is a great idea. I talked to an older man the other day who said he got 5 bushel to the acre of clover seed. At the current $150 bag price that's a pretty good savings. Oh yeah, direct marketing your beef helps quite a bit and lets you control the price you get. The biggest lesson that I have learned so far though is to get good stock. You'll go broke trying to feed inferior animals.

 

[Aaron]

great feed conversion

That pretty well guarantees you'll be runnin at least 1/2 blood Herefords. Welcome to the Cattle Today Hereford cult. :cowboy:

 

[nap]

It sounds to me like you have put some pretty constructive thinking into this already. Safe handling facilities are a must. Using a MIG system is a great idea for reducing fertilizer and hay costs. Is it possible to use MIG year round in your area?

 

[IluvABbeef]

dun: You bet, I was thinking that on about the same terms. Key to a good herd, for me, would be to select for the good producing, good fertile cows sooner than later, as it'll cost me in the long run if I fail to do so.

Starting late: Thanks for your pointers. Alfalfa and brome and timothy are the most common grasses to use, primarily for hay. Timothy, I find, isn't suitable for pasture because of the weird timing to have to graze it and when not to because of those bulbous structures that it tends to produce. It's not a bunch grass either, which (correct me if I'm wrong) is great for pasture use. So any species of fescue, meadow/smooth brome, quackgrass (yes quackgrass), and whatever else works for the pastures up here will do. Still not sure how the direct marketing scheme goes though, I'd like some info on that, if anybody can share, either personal or whats on the web...

Aaron: Thanks! :lol: I still am indecisive between Shorthorn and Herefords, but if herfies are better at feed conversion than shorties, then that's something to consider!

nap: I think in terms of winter grazing it can be done, especially if I have enough pasture to do some stockpile grazing before the snow gets too deep, and bale grazing is also one that requires MIG if I want to have the cows clean up 80 to 90% of the bale before they're shifted to the next one. Have you ever heard of bale grazing before? (I know I have...not as common as swath grazing but people up here are doing it with good results).

 

[SRBeef]

I would second the comment above about having a "safe handling facility".

Today a neighbor and I loaded up my second shipment to the processor. This was a dream compared to the first shipment last June which is probably best described as a nightmare. At that time a large cow going for slaughter would NOT get in the trailer following the panels I had wired from the headgate to the trailer. She actually pushed one of the panels so hard the wire holding it broke and almost broke my arm at the same time.

Following that "learning experience" I constructed a heavy duty wooden loading chute with 6x6 posts and exactly 30" wide inside (Per Dr Grandin) so they can't turn, with gates to divert the ones being shipped into the trailer. Now with the tub, alley, squeeze, diverter gates and loading chute, once you get them into the corral there is absolutely no question that these cattle are going where I want them to go, not where they want to go. And they will do it without me being in with them nor getting hurt. Actually they now just move straight ahead from group momentum and into the trailer. 1200 lb cattle are much stronger than any of us. It is important to remember that.

Unfortunately, the need for and cost of a safe handling facility for cattle is about the same whether you have 10 head or 100 head. I would urge you to just bite the bullet and do it right the first time, before you or anyone else gets hurt. It is infrastructure cost that must be invested. Look at it as a long term investment. Making handling days safe also makes the whole business more fun.

As far as low cost, I have been grazing the cattle on standing corn stalks for the past month plus. The original plan was to graze stubble after combining but the way the weather is here in WI and elsewhere, I would not be surprised in the corn moisture has INCREASED in the past week rather than dried. The cattle are getting used to grazing the full plants and that they need to cleanup some leaves and stalks before they get access to some more ears.

There have been several research projects done in the Canadian prairies regarding grazing standing corn. It looks to me like this is the way to grow an enormous number of cow days per acre that is available when everything else is about gone. Leaving the stalks standing rather than grazing combined stubble looks like it will leave more food out there for grazing even after the ground is covered with snow. I'm hoping these stalks will keep me from feeding too much high priced hay for most of the winter.

Think about grazing corn in Alberta.

 

[IluvABbeef]

As far as low cost, I have been grazing the cattle on standing corn stalks for the past month plus. The original plan was to graze stubble after combining but the way the weather is here in WI and elsewhere, I would not be surprised in the corn moisture has INCREASED in the past week rather than dried. The cattle are getting used to grazing the full plants and that they need to cleanup some leaves and stalks before they get access to some more ears.

There have been several research projects done in the Canadian prairies regarding grazing standing corn. It looks to me like this is the way to grow an enormous number of cow days per acre that is available when everything else is about gone. Leaving the stalks standing rather than grazing combined stubble looks like it will leave more food out there for grazing even after the ground is covered with snow. I'm hoping these stalks will keep me from feeding too much high priced hay for most of the winter.

Think about grazing corn in Alberta.

Problem is, growing corn is not all that popular up here (which is north of the prairies) compared to down in the prairies. And from what I was learning about, research that has been done on extending the grazing season, with using corn for grazing compared with the other methods like bale grazing, swath grazing or stockpiling, the costs of corn grazing is more expensive than any of those other methods. However, I'm not saying I'm against it because I think grazing corn is a valuable tool to put what corn has mined out of the earth back through using livestock, much more inexpensive than spending thousands of dollars on fertilizer next spring. For me, personally though, I don't think I could do the corn thing because I'm more worried about the costs and how that's going to affect me long term, also what if we get a bad summer that corn growth is terrible not leaving much for grazing? I'm sure you worry about things like that down there, but it's more of a risk up here because of the shorter growing season and growing degree days that corn needs compared to other crops like barley or canola.

 

[IluvABbeef]

I would second the comment above about having a "safe handling facility".

Today a neighbor and I loaded up my second shipment to the processor. This was a dream compared to the first shipment last June which is probably best described as a nightmare. At that time a large cow going for slaughter would NOT get in the trailer following the panels I had wired from the headgate to the trailer. She actually pushed one of the panels so hard the wire holding it broke and almost broke my arm at the same time.

Following that "learning experience" I constructed a heavy duty wooden loading chute with 6x6 posts and exactly 30" wide inside (Per Dr Grandin) so they can't turn, with gates to divert the ones being shipped into the trailer. Now with the tub, alley, squeeze, diverter gates and loading chute, once you get them into the corral there is absolutely no question that these cattle are going where I want them to go, not where they want to go. And they will do it without me being in with them nor getting hurt. Actually they now just move straight ahead from group momentum and into the trailer. 1200 lb cattle are much stronger than any of us. It is important to remember that.

I agree with you here, on that the only thing that will keep those beggars in is something strong and sturdy like iron. A lil' piece of wire is nothing to a large animal, a few links of chains are best to use to keep them in. A similar incident happened when I was helping dad process some young weanlings that had just come off the trailer. The steer calf was pushing so hard on this little gate made out of just these iron support beams they use to stabilize the building structure when putting in cement, and either it was the wire or little chain holding the gate together that broke, or whether the chain wasn't lashed up properly, anyway the steer broke free and I did a dumb thing of trying to hold the animal in. Of course, long story short all my injuries were just had a minor bruise on my thumb from my glove (and thumb in the glove) getting caught between the steer and the gate, and of course we had to let the steer go. Learned from then on a) dont try holding in something that's way stronger'n you and b) make sure the gate/panel/fence whatever is secure.

Unfortunately, the need for and cost of a safe handling facility for cattle is about the same whether you have 10 head or 100 head. I would urge you to just bite the bullet and do it right the first time, before you or anyone else gets hurt. It is infrastructure cost that must be invested. Look at it as a long term investment. Making handling days safe also makes the whole business more fun.

Yeah I need to have it done before I put any new cows on the farm, not going to take a life risk leaving things as they are now, when its better to take a financial risk putting it all together/redoing it to make things safer.

And you know what, the best thing is is that at least I know what has to be improved. At least I know what are the weak spots and the strong spots and the spots that are opportunities to improvement and the spots that are a threat and should be taken out. Like for instance, the old, old loading chute needs to go, and the crowding pen is designed wrong. So, I'd be taking this current design of facility (not drawn to scale):

And converting it into this (with much thanks to the help of Knersie [also not drawn to scale]):

With a bit of taking out, reusing and recycling, taking out something in one place and putting it in another (presumably better place) and buying a few new things, this plan should work well.