Stock dogs

[ez14.]

Does anyone on here use stock dogs much? Did you buy trained pups or train them yourself? Any information or tips anyone has would be appreciated

 

[Dave]

Everyone around here uses them. My closest neighbor has 9 if my count is right. There was a dog who was here on my place several times as a young dog. Last year at Red Bluff she sold for $45,000. My neighbor B has a pup from that dog. He figures his dog should be worth $22,500 lol. I have one that came from neighbor #1 as a pup. Border Collie/Idaho Shag cross. She is just 2 now. Did all the training myself (the jury is still out on that). It is a work in progress. Working close she does good. Gets out a ways and she gets deaf or has selective hearing.

 

[Lucky]

Most of the guys I know that handle cattle allot use dogs. I'd say they mix it up on dogs. They'll buy a good one or two and then train pups with them. Most have at least 2 dogs if not 10. They are not pets either, they are working dogs. It just depends on what your after. I'd say a good started dog that will work alone, can learn with you, and be a companion type would be money well spent at $2,500. I've posted about my neighbor training his blue heeler. She tries and does a good job but there's also allot left to be desired. If you haven't already check out Moura Stockdogs on instagram or just google them. Awesome videos of what a good dog can do.

 

[Named'em Tamed'em]

This is Roy, she's in heat and snuck out of the house to "help". She has a lot more cow in her than you can imagine. First thing is training them to the max. I whistle and she skids to a stop. Now I gotta whistle again to get her to come.

Your cows will Make difference too! I can't afford one already trained.

 

[RDFF]

I had a Border Collie from one of the most highly recognized breeders in the world... Jack Knox. Awesome dog. If you're getting one as a pup, it's alot easier to train them on sheep, or for starters, ducks actually... because they won't challenge the dog nearly as much because of their strong instinct to stay "herded up". And ducks are just alot slower than cattle. Once you've got the basics worked into him on them, then graduate up to cattle.

Mine was just so hot to work, even from a little pup, I couldn't keep him away... he'd tear stuff up and go crazy tied up, if he knew we were down by the cattle... so I let him get started really young... like maybe 8 weeks or so. Well, he got kicked and stepped on by a cow in a crowded pen in a "tight spot" where he didn't have any good escape route (concrete walls on all 4 sides), cut open his rear foot bad... and that made him more timid IF HE WAS IN A PEN WITH NO MEANS OF ESCAPE... or if the pen was deep in mud............. but on firm footing with enough room, he was a real go-getter. LOVED working with him.

Jack gave me a book (that I THINK he'd written?) about training them, and understanding the breed and their instincts, and how critical it is to understand and work with that natural instinct. Can't remember the name of it now right off... I'm sure I have it here somewhere.
Jack Knox Learning Life's Lessons with Stock Dogs I found this one online... it's not the one that I have, but it's the only one I found written by Knox. Training Border Collies, Barbara Sykes Of all of the ones I found online, this one looks "the closest" to what I have, but I know this isn't it either. The one I had would have been written before 1980 sometime, that's about when I bought my dog.

There are differences in the various stock dog breeds as to their natural instincts... so you might want to learn about them before you decide what kind of dog you might want. If you don't understand those, you might get frustrated because you might be fighting against him with how YOU want him to work.

 

[Logan52]

With small fields and gentle cattle, a feed bucket is probably the most efficient way to gather stock.
I like dogs and use my border collie/australian shepherd cross on major moves from one end of farm to the other. I spend much more time playing fetch with a tennis ball with her than working cattle.
Many people here have stock dogs but few actually use them to their potential.

 

[Travlr]

Does anyone on here use stock dogs much? Did you buy trained pups or train them yourself? Any information or tips anyone has would be appreciated

I've always found a bucket of grain works as well as anything once you condition your cows to come when called.

But it you're going to get a dog, it would be good to know that some dogs are more inclined to head and some are more inclined to heel. The headers or fetching dogs keep livestock in a group. They consistently go to the front or head of the animals to turn or stop the animal's movement. The heelers or driving dogs keep pushing the animals forward. Typically, they stay behind the herd.

 

[RDFF]

Exactly right Travlr. The headers (which a border collie is) will always want to work the herd TOWARD YOU... as you are the Alpha... natural instinct. They have been bred to go out around to the other side of the "herd", gather them up and keep them gathered, and then bring them to YOU. With these, you learn to "pull the herd", by being in front of them, while the dog brings them up toward you.

The heelers will (by instinct) want to be working at the back of the herd and driving them forward WITH you... you and the dog are driving the herd from behind together.

You need to know what way you'll want to be working, before you choose what breed of working dog you're going to want. I've found that it's alot easier to pull a string than to push it.

 

[wbvs58]

My Kelpies like to have their own job to do, they always want to work the opposite side to me so I have to position myself to take the best advantage of them.

Ken

 

[ez14.]

I've always found a bucket of grain works as well as anything once you condition your cows to come when called.

But it you're going to get a dog, it would be good to know that some dogs are more inclined to head and some are more inclined to heel. The headers or fetching dogs keep livestock in a group. They consistently go to the front or head of the animals to turn or stop the animal's movement. The heelers or driving dogs keep pushing the animals forward. Typically, they stay behind the herd.

If I end up getting some stock dogs they won't really be for my cattle. They'll mostly be for other people's stock

 

[Dusty Britches]

I used to think just a sack of feed would work but I always have a few that will not come to feed. Plus, a good dog will help me move the cows through the pens and chutes. I would say it takes several years to develop a finished stock dog because a lot of what they learn is from experience. The more experiences you can give them the faster they learn. A good dog will also keep the stock calm and help calm them if things get dicey.

Now, I don't spend hardly any money on sacks of feed. Either they will follow me or my dogs will show them why they should follow me.

 

[Dave]

I was helping the neighbor and another guy gather and move a couple hundred cows. I was on a quad on the "road" with the main bunch. That country is such that you aren't getting to far off the road on anything with wheels L was off to my left horseback. He was far enough out there that I would have to stop and look hard to find him. I think he had 4 or 5 dogs with him that day. From where I was I could see some cows 400 yards or so up the side on a mountain. I was thinking I doubt he can see those cows. Then I saw what looked like a black spot going up the mountain. Pretty quick those cows came down the mountain. I talked to him later and he said he never saw those cows or sent the dog. They brought them down on their own. Same day I spotted 2 pairs off to my right. I was looking for a hole that I could drive through to get to them. Out of nowhere a dog came flying by me, went and got those cows and put them into the herd. Then headed back in L's direction. No feed bucket would work in this country but a good dog is worth a couple of men horseback.

 

[Logan52]

I appreciate a good dog as much as anyone and do not doubt the testimonies of their effectiveness, I have seen it many times.
Still, for most people, unless they have the time to really keep the dog busy with work, they can be more trouble than they are worth.
When I first moved down here on the farm I had a neighbor who was a genius with work stock including dogs, horses and mules. He was a gruff man's man, a survivor of the worst of the Battle of the Bulge. Sometimes he would hit the bottle a little, and who could blame him. He sort of took me under his wing and my Dad loved him. I've seen tears come to his eyes after a dog or mule displayed real heart and grit in doing his job.
Anyway, he always said that you just do not see good broke mules or dogs anymore (this was the early 1970s). People just do not put in the time it takes to make them so.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Exactly right Travlr. The headers (which a border collie is) will always want to work the herd TOWARD YOU... as you are the Alpha... natural instinct. They have been bred to go out around to the other side of the "herd", gather them up and keep them gathered, and then bring them to YOU. With these, you learn to "pull the herd", by being in front of them, while the dog brings them up toward you.

The heelers will (by instinct) want to be working at the back of the herd and driving them forward WITH you... you and the dog are driving the herd from behind together.

You need to know what way you'll want to be working, before you choose what breed of working dog you're going to want. I've found that it's alot easier to pull a string than to push it.

I have absolutely no use for a dog but what you wrote makes sense, Thanks for that!

 

[Dusty Britches]

I appreciate a good dog as much as anyone and do not doubt the testimonies of their effectiveness, I have seen it many times.
Still, for most people, unless they have the time to really keep the dog busy with work, they can be more trouble than they are worth.
When I first moved down here on the farm I had a neighbor who was a genius with work stock including dogs, horses and mules. He was a gruff man's man, a survivor of the worst of the Battle of the Bulge. Sometimes he would hit the bottle a little, and who could blame him. He sort of took me under his wing and my Dad loved him. I've seen tears come to his eyes after a dog or mule displayed real heart and grit in doing his job.
Anyway, he always said that you just do not see good broke mules or dogs anymore (this was the early 1970s). People just do not put in the time it takes to make them so.

I can appreciate what your old friend said about putting the time in to train them. We always say, "Train don't complain."

I will however disagree with your comment about a dog being more trouble than they are worth. I love my dogs and always have things for them to do, although it may not always be moving stock.

 

[SmokinM]

Not much in this world handier working cattle than a truly broke dog. Not much in this world will make a mess working cattle faster than an unbroke one. It is important for the owner/ handler to know what they got.

 

[Dave]

And another example of it is a big old world out there. Literally every rancher here has cow dogs. They generally go every where with the ranchers and cowboys. One day at the cow sale the auctioneer asked, "does anyone here have a black and white border collie." After a couple of seconds of everyone staring at him, he said let me change that. Does anyone have a dog that fits that description which might be loose in the parking lot. 3 or 4 guys got up and headed out the door.
The big out there of the ION you will always see a dog or 3 with every cowboy you run across.

 

[Dave]

Go to gathering cattle in this country you best have a horse who can travel and a couple good dogs will come in real handy. And a grain bucket it useless unless you want to give the horse a snack.

 

[Farm Family]

Does anyone on here use stock dogs much? Did you buy trained pups or train them yourself? Any information or tips anyone has would be appreciated

By "stock dog" I assume you mean the collie, heeler "herding type dogs"…we do not. We do however have an LGD (Livestock Guardian Dog). Most LGDs are used on sheep, fowl or goats…our LGD works cattle. Where we are located, we have bears, wolves, cougars, coyotes…she is needed to keep all these predators away from the herd, our farm and our pastures. She is awesome. She has required training and guidance from us. She has natural bred in skills but like all pups needed attention, confidence guiding and role modeling. She is now two years old. She came to us at 12 weeks, we left her with her parents and birth herd of cattle a little longer to learn from her own. She is also wonderful with our chickens. Her cows love her and we are grateful for her hard work. This is her second calving season and she is awesome! She is a working dog for sure! Probably not the same type of stock dog you are asking about because LGDs are less common with cattle but a dog that knows her stock just the same!

 

[Silver]

My dog is with me all day every day. That's why he gets used all the time and my horse is getting really bored. A dog and a side by side or 4 wheeler is pretty handy.