Still Born

[Deepsouth]

One of my first calf heifers had a still born yesterday. I have no idea what went wrong. The heifer was in good condition during the pregnancy and is doing very well since the birth. She started showing some signs that she was getting close to having the calf Monday and I''ve been watching close all week yesterday morning she looked fine when I got home I saw that she had given birth but no calf was with her. Grass is high in this pasture so I waited till after dark and went and checked again. She was standing with the dead calf. Monday and tuesday she was licking her side alot and walking really slow. Also just two weeks ago she didnt even hardly look pregnant and then just sprang up real big almost over night. The calfs tongue was swollen really bad. I did put some nitrate on some rye grass that she had access to last Saturday. I put out about 100 lbs/ acre and I didn't think this was enough to worry about nitrate poisoning. This is a nice looking cow that I like. Should I think about selling her or give her another chance? Did I mess up with the nitrogen application, I only had her and one more heifer still pregnant when I made the application and the other cow seems fine.

 

[snake67]

There are so many possibilities that I would not worry - you did your part and the cow tried to do her part.

As for keeping or selling, that is up to you.

Bottom line - keeping livestock means you will have deadstock from time to time.

Best to you

Bez

 

[randiliana]

If the calf's tongue was swollen badly then she probably had trouble having it. That could be why it's dead, or it could have been born with the sac over its head.

 

[chippie]

I would keep her and give her another chance. Stuff like that happens. My son's Braunvieh cow had a still born calf this year. It was her 4th calf. The umbilical cord broke during labor and the calf died before it could get out. Not the cow's fault. Just one of those things that sucks.
Hope your heifer is doing OK.

 

[Limomike]

What the others are saying on here is correct. It happens from time to time, and hopefully not much.
I had a first calf heifer did the same thing last year, never could figure out why the calf died. Just gave her another chance, and she had a really fine one this year. To me, its worth giving them another chance.

 

[Deepsouth]

If the calf's tongue was swollen badly then she probably had trouble having it. That could be why it's dead, or it could have been born with the sac over its head.

That's what someone else told me today. The tongue was swollen enough to have choked it.

 

[Deepsouth]

What the others are saying on here is correct. It happens from time to time, and hopefully not much.
I had a first calf heifer did the same thing last year, never could figure out why the calf died. Just gave her another chance, and she had a really fine one this year. To me, its worth giving them another chance.

That's good to hear. I really did figure on keeping her for another try. I have plenty of grass and room for my cows so it won't be costing me much to give her another chance.

Thank y'all for the help.

 

[Beef Man]

I guess we are hard on our cows,but we never keep one that we have to make a excuse for. Have also beleived that mother nature is delivering a message when these things happen. A heiferete that will still make beef and we all know there is plenty around to replace her.

 

[cowgirl_jenna]

Yeah, it happens like others said. Was the calf full size by the way? I had a cow a few years ago have dead twins, about a month early. She had the one and was pretty small and I was concerned if there might be a twin. Checked her and there was. As for keeping her, if she has good temperment ect, we tend to give a heifer another chance for somthing like this. But, the biggest thing is to watch she doesn't get too fat by next calving season.

 

[Lucky_P]

randi nailed it. Dystocia; calf may have been dead before she finally managed to get it out, or may have had issues with hypoxia and died after delivery.

She'd have to leave here. Calving in late January as a 2-yr old means I've already fed her through two winters, and I'll have to feed her through through another one before she delivers another one - if she manages that. She's gonna be close to 4 before she ever gives you any return on what you've invested in her. It's your call - and don't get me wrong, I've 'made excuses' and kept 'em in the past, but no more...

 

[plumber_greg]

Is a calf like this "stillborn". I calve in the winter and see most of the calves born. The actual count of what I consider "stillborn", has to be in the 1/10 of 1% range of dead calves. I've lost them, everyone has, but most are alive when they start coming thur the birth track.
Just wondering what the definition was, or if it's just a term to make us feel better about losing one. gs

 

[Deepsouth]

Is a calf like this "stillborn". I calve in the winter and see most of the calves born. The actual count of what I consider "stillborn", has to be in the 1/10 of 1% range of dead calves. I've lost them, everyone has, but most are alive when they start coming thur the birth track.
Just wondering what the definition was, or if it's just a term to make us feel better about losing one. gs

I actually read on an info site on the internet that any calf that dies within 48 hours of birth is considered a still born. I don't really understand that.

Jenna the calf was within the right size range, not to big not to small, but it's head did look big but I can't say that it was for sure.

 

[Kscattle]

Well we just talked about this an hr ago in a hands on 4H meeting. They did an autopsy on a still born calf, she took a piece of the lung and put in some water, if it floats its had oxygen in its lungs. If it sinks in the water, no oxygen was absorbed in the lungs, therefore stillborn. Bacteria in dog/coyote poo will cause still born like what your talking about. The internal organs will be the same shade of color, is one symptom. The lungs should be light pink, and heart,kidneys,spleen will be different colors of red/pink. Some things like lepto, can be fixed by vaccine but the bacteria in dog poo, there's no vaccine to prevent this, grazing short grass in a drought year like will play a role in causing cows to eat poo and will result in a dead calf. Only thing to do is an autopsy and find out what happened, but like others had said, this happens sometimes without any explanation. If she's good and gentle I would probably keep her, but if you decide to ship her she's worth at least $1,000. :2cents: You gotta have cattle to lose them!
Kscattle

 

[Lucky_P]

p_greg,
It's sort of an 'academic' call.
To me, 'stillborn' means the calf was born dead - lungs not inflated, no evidence of hemorrhage in/around internal umbilical vessels - indicating it no longer had a heartbeat when the dam finally got the calf up into the birth canal and the umbilical cord was compressed.
In the same arena is what I term 'perinatal death' - calf may have umbilical hemorrhage and/or inflated lungs, but was too weak or hypoxic to get up, and died.

Most stillborn/perinatal deaths I do diagnostic workups on yield no definitive diagnosis - though we are able to 'rule out' things like Leptospirosis, Neospora, Coxiella, IBR, BVD, etc.

 

[plumber_greg]

Thanks gs

 

[Lucky_P]

Had one submitted for necropsy last week, during a bitter cold snap. Owner claimed to have seen the calf alive - but never saw it stand or nurse. Died some time in the first day.
Lungs were only partially inflated, eponychia(the soft rubbery material on the hooves) was minimally disturbed, so I have doubts that it ever stood. No evidence of nursing. Nothing grossly abnormal in any organ, no microscopic lesions, no significant bacterial or viral pathogens detected - but PCR on brain tissue was positive for Neospora caninum.
So...I have to suggest Neosporosis as a possible cause, though I'm always conflicted making that diagnosis when I see no microscopic lesions in brain, heart, diaphragm, or liver.

 

[Deepsouth]

Lucky_P, what is neosporosis and what causes it?

 

[bandit80]

Same thing happened to me this morning. It stinks but that is part of raisjng stock. I have kept open cows in years past, but just cant do it anymore. Drought, tight hay supplies, and the cost of keeping a cow year round all point to selling open cows. Whether they lose a calf or are open at preg check, they go down the road. Weigh cows bring close to $1000, and heiferettes even more.

 

[Lucky_P]

Nice overview of neosporosis from UofWI here: http://www.wvdl.wisc.edu/PDF%5CWVDL.Inf ... ctions.pdf
Lots of info on the 'net about it.
Has been implicated as a leading cause of abortion in dairy cattle on the left coast, and in the northeastern US.
I've been looking for it in virtually every aborted/stillborn calf I've looked at for nearly 25 years; up until a couple of years ago, had only seen a handful of cases, but we are finding it more frequently over the last 2-3 years.

There is division of opinion within the veterinary diagnostic community about it.
For instance, in the calf I necropsied last week - no lesions whatsoever to suggest Neospora infection - but they picked it up with PCR. We know that a significant percentage of cattle infected with N. caninum give birth to clinically normal, but infected calves; usually, if they go to term, they will be 'normal' in all respects, but infected heifers may abort when they reach breeding age, or give birth to another generation of infected but clinically normal calves.
So... does a positive PCR result, in the face of no gross or microscopic lesions, really incriminate Neospora - or any other pathogen - as the cause of abortion/stillbirth/perinatal death? That's a question I struggle with every day; even when I find brain lesions, they are so tiny and localized, that I sometimes wonder if they're really the cause of fetal death and abortion. But identifying its presence - in the absence of other pathogens - is, at least a presumptive diagnosis, and gives the producer and their veterinarian a windmill to tilt at, if nothing else.

 

[jilleroo]

The heifer was just too slow having the calf - dystocia. Had someone been there to pull the calf earlier, it wouldve been a five minute job, live calf, no drama. Keep the heifer if you like her, she did manage to get it out. She'll be faster next time.