State bull test--what's the main point?

[tncattle]

I was reading the results for the UT sr. bull test. If I remember right these bulls were on full feed for something like 205 days and most had an ADG of 5 lbs. or more. They will all be sold as breeding bulls but why would would I want to buy one of these and turn him out with the girls with just pasture and hay? Wouldn't he get run down quick from chasing them and not getting all that feed he's used to? When they are on the full feed they also basically get no exercise as they're in very small pens/lots. What am I missing?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

That is what happens if you do as you say. The point is to show a bulls ability to gain weight and hope he passes that on to his offspring. If you do it right you buy the bull and bring him down off the feed slow.

 

[tncattle]

That is what happens if you do as you say. The point is to show a bulls ability to gain weight and hope he passes that on to his offspring. If you do it right you buy the bull and bring him down off the feed slow.

Ok, but I want a bull that will maintain his weight without feed. I also want cows that raise calves without help and I don't want to feed calves. I guess that's up to me to find those kind of genetics.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Most commercial breeders are selling calves at weaning to be fed out in a feed lot, or own their own calves and wean them and feed them out and sell them on the grid. These bulls are feed for the gain, like RBB said, so that the potential buyer of the bull knows that his calves are likely to increase in gain like the sire.
If you grass feed your beef all the way through, one of these bulls would not likely work. Most breeders do not grass feed beef all the way through.
It makes perfect sense to the main stream beef producer; produce as many pounds as you can on as little input as you can (improve feed conversion) as quick as you can.
Most of those bulls I have seen do just fine when used in breeding programs; they do not "melt" as some people say. But like RBB said, they have to bring the bull down off the full feed onto a normal diet.
I see the day coming, with the prices the way they are, when breeders will be paid a premium if their genetics are proven to be better converters of feed, and get to the end market weight faster with better grading carcasses. Feedlots will be looking for better ADG and feed conversion to get the edge on competition.

 

[AllForage]

I was reading the results for the UT sr. bull test. If I remember right these bulls were on full feed for something like 205 days and most had an ADG of 5 lbs. or more. They will all be sold as breeding bulls but why would would I want to buy one of these and turn him out with the girls with just pasture and hay? Wouldn't he get run down quick from chasing them and not getting all that feed he's used to? When they are on the full feed they also basically get no exercise as they're in very small pens/lots. What am I missing?

If they don't make sense to you then just ignore them. Give your business to a guy that raises cattle the way you see right. There are a ton out there. Once again some people need to get out more and broaden their horizons.

I see value in using moderste grain for cheap convenient energy in growing out stock, but 7 months of full feed is questionable.

 

[dun]

The main point is for someone to make money.

 

[tncattle]

The main point is for someone to make money.

I agree with you Dun. I'm more the mindset for my cattle to do the work they were created to do themselves. In other words, I want my cattle to work for me more than I work for them. Of course if I don't have good grass (feed) then I'm fighting a losing battle. I've also penciled it out that it's cheaper for me to buy hay than buy all the equipment I need to cut it plus all my time/labor, except in a real dry year which we seem to have only about 1 out of every 10 years. My problem is always finding good land to lease!!

 

[bse]

Lots of good points, the RADG is going to become very important I think. Someone does make lots of money and not usually the producer, but its a good way to get exposure for your animals.
If your looking to buy a bull its a good place to find different genetics and know exactly how they gain, how they scan and things that can be very important, a good bull will make you money. They have a warming up and cooling off period, when they go on test maybe the first 2 weeks there just on feed getting used to it so the playing field is equal then feed maybe 80 days all data taken and info calculated to see how they gain on feed, then the last 30 days or so there brought down on feed so there ready to go to work.(probably not exact number of days)
So if you get a bull that will gain 5lbs a day on feed and passes that to his calves wouldnt that be good info to have? I may be wrong but i think right now you can afford to feed calves that will gain.

 

[tncattle]

Lots of good points, the RADG is going to become very important I think. Someone does make lots of money and not usually the producer, but its a good way to get exposure for your animals.
If your looking to buy a bull its a good place to find different genetics and know exactly how they gain, how they scan and things that can be very important, a good bull will make you money. They have a warming up and cooling off period, when they go on test maybe the first 2 weeks there just on feed getting used to it so the playing field is equal then feed maybe 80 days all data taken and info calculated to see how they gain on feed, then the last 30 days or so there brought down on feed so there ready to go to work.(probably not exact number of days)
So if you get a bull that will gain 5lbs a day on feed and passes that to his calves wouldnt that be good info to have? I may be wrong but i think right now you can afford to feed calves that will gain.

I agree you can afford to feed calves right not but I'm just always trying to limit inputs (tightwad). Of course none of that matters when you don't have any land for cattle--again, my finding land saga drags on.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Its knowledge just have to figure out how to use it. Don't you think a animal that gains great on feed should also gain pretty good on good grass.

 

[tncattle]

Its knowledge just have to figure out how to use it. Don't you think a animal that gains great on feed should also gain pretty good on good grass.

Not always the case.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Not always but one heck of a lot of the time it is the case.

 

[mwj]

Most people that raise bulls want to turn a profit. Everyone wants a bull that has moderate flesh and fed with minimal grain so they can go straight to the breeding pastures. 99.5% of those buyers will purchase the fastest growing fleshiest bull in the sale! :cowboy: If your premise is correct on people wanting those non fed bulls, there would be hundreds of forage fed bull sales all over the country.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

That is what happens if you do as you say. The point is to show a bulls ability to gain weight and hope he passes that on to his offspring. If you do it right you buy the bull and bring him down off the feed slow.

Ok, but I want a bull that will maintain his weight without feed. I also want cows that raise calves without help and I don't want to feed calves. I guess that's up to me to find those kind of genetics.

Some people would rather have real numbers to judge a bulls abilities to produce pounds, not just what a epd says. These bulls get sold to people that want feed performance cattle. If your looking for cows that raise calves, then buy cows with a calf on their side.

 

[tncattle]

Most people that raise bulls want to turn a profit. Everyone wants a bull that has moderate flesh and fed with minimal grain so they can go straight to the breeding pastures. 99.5% of those buyers will purchase the fastest growing fleshiest bull in the sale! :cowboy: If your premise is correct on people wanting those non fed bulls, there would be hundreds of forage fed bull sales all over the country.

I never said anything about "people" wanting non fed bulls. I said "I" want one that performs on grass because I don't want to have to feed him consistently.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Well go buy you some of Kit Pharo's koolaid.

 

[tnwalkingred]

MidTNcattle,

95% of the people who raise calves in our area sell those calves at the sale barn correct? Once those calves leave that sale barn they go to a feed lot where they are fed large amounts of feed so that they can gain lots of weight and then processed for slaughter. Buying a bull that has proven he can gain on feed is more likely than not a indicatior that his calves will do the same. I background all my calves for at least 45 days before I sell them and believe me I want as good of genetics I can get to ensure those calves will put as many pounds as possible on before I take them to the sale barn. If the bulls are brought off of feed properly and given the right amount of nutrition afterwards they should hold their condition well. Holding condition and gaining condition take two very different diet regimes.

KW

 

[WarEagle73]

If I understand your concern correctly, it is that these bulls are all grain-fed and the test doesn't not identify bulls that will make daughters that will perform on grass. That is correct, but I think looking at the pedigrees is a better indicator of that regardless of how the bull is developed.

Also if a bull comes out of a test like that and he ultrasounds with higher IMF and Backfat, then he was probably a easier fleshing bull than his contemporaries. I would think this indicates his calves would be easier fleshing regardless of their diet.

 

[Toad]

I bought a bull through a similar sale and brought him slowly down to a mostly grass diet. After doing his duty this year he is getting some grain over the winter to get him ready to do it all over again. I've been impressed how well he has progressed and I'm hoping his calves are going to do well. The first ones are due within a month so I guess we will see.

 

[Jogeephus]

I think the main point a bull test is to give you a guide to what the animal is capable of doing. But I don't think it always gives you a direct relationship between how it does on poorer diets but it can be useful all the same. Personally, I don't really care to know all this myself since I do not push my calves because I've yet to figure out how to get a cow to produce more than one calf per year. With that in mind, I'm less concerned how long it takes to raise the calf to a salable weight and more concerned in amount of money if costs me to get it there. But I have pushed them before and was pleased with the results of how these bull test numbers translated to the calves its just I wasn't impressed with my net profit when they were sold. If I were selling replacements with papers then all this would surely change the equation.