Starting out with Dexters...

[flyingcircleg]

Little bit of background. Have been helping some family friends/ranchers for years with their angus x, so have a fair knowledge of cattle.

Personally have had couple hundred sheep and goats over the years. Have 5 acres and recently worked out 2 leases (10 acres across the street) and 60 acres a few miles down the road. Looking at getting a small herd of dexters to start off with. Good breed, or should I look towards something else?

Climate wise we are pretty mild, summers are in the 90's with the occasional days that hit low 100's (prolly only 5-10 days a year), winters are normally in the 30-40s day time temps, with night time rarely hitting the 20's and i think hit the teens and isngle digits once in the past 5 years. Get snow give or take 4 times a year, but normally only hangs around for a few days till it all melts...

Want to raise them to put beef in my freezer and then sell some at auction and/or local people...

 

[VirginiaCattle]

I would recommend sticking to normal sized cattle if you want to make a business of it. You could get one Dexter as a pet if you really want to. I wouldn't fill 60 acres of them without a buyer lined up for the calves.

 

[dun]

Dexters are a nich breed. You'll get killed if you have to sell at the salebarn.

 

[Taurus]

You better find buyers to buy your dexters. Last thing you needs is a surplus of unwanted calves so limit your herd numbers. Or breed your mature dexter cows to a low birth weight bull of larger breeds, usually an Angus bull for better marketable calves.

 

[flyingcircleg]

Any breed recommendation that going to be hardy and work well in the climate I had listed?

 

[Nesikep]

I'll echo what dun, Taurus, and VirginiaCattle have said, adding that there are some real spooky animals in that breed.. If docility matters to you (on 5 acres I'd assume it does), make sure you start off with ALL docile animals.. 1 spook in the herd will get everyone riled... and I've seen some mighty nasty 500 lb bulls too. I always recommend big docile animals for ease of handling over small mean ones!

 

[Taurus]

I'll echo what dun, Taurus, and VirginiaCattle have said, adding that there are some real spooky animals in that breed.. If docility matters to you (on 5 acres I'd assume it does), make sure you start off with ALL docile animals.. 1 spook in the herd will get everyone riled... and I've seen some mighty nasty 500 lb bulls too. I always recommend big docile animals for ease of handling over small mean ones!

Yup dexters are supposedly to be docile but it seems that some hobby farmers forget or refuse to cull their problematic dexters and now you have more bad apples in the breed these nowadays. I called them....mini Spanish fighting bulls.

 

[Nesikep]

Neighbor had one to breed his Jersey cow.. he was a year old, 600 lbs or so, and was a total chicken shyt.. I had my arm hanging out of the dutch door of the barn, and he's carefully come and sniff my hand, then get all pizzy and try and mash it, I'd move my hand and he'd jump back scared, then come around for another try at it.

 

[VirginiaCattle]

Any breed recommendation that going to be hardy and work well in the climate I had listed?

Your location is probably more important than the climate to make a recommendation. For instance, around here red doesn't sell well at all. White calves do ok if they look like an angus cross. Solid black does the best. Any ear at all gets them docked a lot here. You probably want a polled breed for ease of handling and to avoid discounts. There are areas of the country where red sells well and eared cattle are a premium and there is a place for horns if cattle are left to fend for themselves.

A recommendation I would make is to go out and see what is for sale. Evaluate the price vs quality of what is available and decide from there. If you set your heart on buying a specific breed to start a commercial herd then you will likely overpay. Go to your local auction and watch the calves sell. See which are selling at a premium in your area.

So for around my area I'd start with cattle that can be bred to Angus or Simmental to make a black calf (Gelbvieh would work but are hard to find here). I'd stay away from Charolais unless the price or quality was good because it's much harder to breed white out. I've had horrible luck with cancer eye in Herefords and white-faced Simmentals so I personally would shy away from any with white eyelids. Then select a breed of bull that you want your future herd to emulate and AI to the best bulls in that breed. You could synchronize a herd no bigger than you'll have and hire someone to come breed them all in a few hours. Keep your best replacements and you should see a lot of improvement each generation.

The most important factor around here is having a group of calves that look the same. So the fewer that stand out in your calf crop the better (white, red, baldy, horned, eared etc).

 

[fitz]

Good post VirginiaCattle.


fitz

 

[slick4591]

If you are raising a commercial type of animal I'll agree with what others have said about the niche breeds. Thing is with the niche market is when you do it right you can hit lots of home runs.

 

[djinwa]

Just be aware there is more to consider with breed and color than price at the salebarn.

Cattle are big heat producers due to rumen fermentation, so they start to experience heat stress around 70 degrees. It takes extra energy to dissipate the heat, meaning less feed going to growth, etc. Fertility also declines in heat.

It is well established in animal science that black cattle have significantly increased heat stress, as black absorbs more solar radiation. Dexters are more scrawny than other breeds, so black ones would suffer less than standard breeds.

Simple suggestion would be red angus cows. There are certain lines that are smaller framed. As mentioned, could breed to a black bull and get black calves, and perhaps do AI to red angus to get red replacement heifers.

Good cattletoday article on heat stress:
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

 

[Taurus]

Just be aware there is more to consider with breed and color than price at the salebarn.

Cattle are big heat producers due to rumen fermentation, so they start to experience heat stress around 70 degrees. It takes extra energy to dissipate the heat, meaning less feed going to growth, etc. Fertility also declines in heat.

It is well established in animal science that black cattle have significantly increased heat stress, as black absorbs more solar radiation. Dexters are more scrawny than other breeds, so black ones would suffer less than standard breeds.

Simple suggestion would be red angus cows. There are certain lines that are smaller framed. As mentioned, could breed to a black bull and get black calves, and perhaps do AI to red angus to get red replacement heifers.

Good cattletoday article on heat stress:
http://www.cattletoday.com/archive/2007 ... 1033.shtml

still on the heat stress? That subject has been beat to death too many times.... :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: Black cattle should be fine out in the pastures as long as they have water available at all times. If you got some trees already, why worry about heat stress?
Yes heat can affect fertility but only in bulls. Then again many bulls are working on cows at nights when its cool outside.

There are some lines of Dexters that can be meaty and you do get some large dexter bulls that might goes over 1,000lbs. Then again many dexters are not that scrawny like jerseys or Holsteins.

When I had shorthorn cows, they are not tolerant of heat as they often spend their time in the pond during hot days but that can be due to the fact that they are fat. Some of the shorthorn cows are white. Personally I believe that a fat bovine on full feed, won't do well at hot temperatures regardless of what color it is.

 

[VirginiaCattle]

Black cows will stay warmer in the winter. It's a give and take. What it boils down to for me is if I can find bulls of a breed that compete against other breeds. I'm not a big proponent of heterosis because it's a "cheap thrill" if you will. You are taking advantage of different populations. That is very true. The problem lies in selecting the best amongst them. Are you selecting for the dominant traits in breed 1 or breed 2 and when you mate with breed 3 do you just hope that the dominant trait transfers instead of the recessive? I believe if you want to make real progress generation to generation you select for traits that you can and try to create homozygous animals for as many economically relevant traits as you can. If you break up segments of DNA by crossbreading you are likely exchanging short term results for long-term progress.

Getting back to my point about competing against other breeds. There are several studies done and USMARC does a good one each year to compare EPD's from breed to breed. I think you should be selecting bulls that meet the calf market in your area. If you have a niche market, then by all means produce for it. I had a city friend telling me I should raise "Kobe" cattle this weekend. I just grit my teeth and listened.

 

[Nesikep]

As for heat, I have red cows, most are a fair size, I'd say 1400 lb average, with a few 1800's... I've had shorthorns, and have a couple white ones left.. the white ones don't handle heat any better than the reds. May through August here is usually in the 90's, touching the mid 100's once in a while, my cattle rarely have access to shade, though they always have fresh water close by.. I can say I haven't had any trouble with it, except one first timer that may have had heat stroke, and I think it was the old cows hogging the water trough, though I can't be certain of anything about what was wrong with her.

 

[MO_cows]

I'll put in another vote for a more "mainstream" cattle breed than the Dexters. If you want the convenience of selling at the local auction, you will not like what you get paid for them there. Also they carry some genetic defects so you have to give yourself a short course in genetics and do some DNA testing to avoid those in your breeding.

Go to your nearest sale barns a few times, see what breeds are coming thru and what is bringing the best prices. That will help you decide what to raise. But since you're new, don't buy your starter stock there.