Sperm Morphology, please explain those numbers for me.

[SBMF 2015]

I've said it before. Scrotal circumference doesn't make sense to me. As long as a bull provides a decent dose of viable sperm I don't see why the size of his nuts makes any kind of difference. It's like thinking a cow with a small bag can't give milk... and there are plenty of small uddered cows that raise big calves.

It's carrying capacity. Larger testicals can hold more sperm. So a bull with big nuts can have more ejaculations with a viable amount of semen. Enough to settle more cows.

 

[kenny thomas]

Holy crap, over 40?????? What kind of breed do you run?

I have Black Simmental bulls.
If you have a bull with a body condition of 4 i would think that could effect the sperm amount and quality. Why is he so thin?

 

[Travlr]

It's carrying capacity. Larger testicals can hold more sperm. So a bull with big nuts can have more ejaculations with a viable amount of semen. Enough to settle more cows.

The average number of sperm in an ejaculate is in the 1/1.5 BILLION range. A straw for AI is 10 to 40 million. How many of the excess sperms would have done the job if the one that was successful hadn't been there? I'd have to doubt large nuts and excess sperm does much in settling cows. Could it be the quality of the sperm that makes the difference?
But hey, I could be wrong.
Makes me wonder how soon we will see bulls hung like a dairy cow's udder...

 

[hrsr]

I have Black Simmental bulls.
If you have a bull with a body condition of 4 i would think that could effect the sperm amount and quality. Why is he so thin?

Kenny the original poster is from Canada where body condition is generally scored 1-5 so a bull scored at 4 would be in quite good condition definitely not thin.
Another point of interest with regards to the BSE is that I have had a number of people that attend several bull sales in the USA mainly in Montana and the Dakotas but also other states say that bulls will consistently have a 2 or 3 cm larger scrotal measurement when done by a American vet compared to if measured by a Canadian vet.

 

[kenny thomas]

Thank you for the explanation

 

[wbvs58]

It's carrying capacity. Larger testicals can hold more sperm. So a bull with big nuts can have more ejaculations with a viable amount of semen. Enough to settle more cows.

Not true, the ampulla are the storage area of the bull.

The Nuts and bolts of bull fertility - Australian Brahman Breeders Association

BRAHMAN NEWS DECEMBER 2015 ISSUE #189 PAGE 24 By Ced Wise on behalf of Rocky Repro This article is based on a presentation Ced made at a forum sponsored by Rocky Repro at CQLX, following the ABBA Annual General Meeting. Above all else, a bull is bred and sold to produce calves. The…

www.brahman.com.au

Ken

 

[SBMF 2015]

Not true, the ampulla are the storage area of the bull.

The Nuts and bolts of bull fertility - Australian Brahman Breeders Association

BRAHMAN NEWS DECEMBER 2015 ISSUE #189 PAGE 24 By Ced Wise on behalf of Rocky Repro This article is based on a presentation Ced made at a forum sponsored by Rocky Repro at CQLX, following the ABBA Annual General Meeting. Above all else, a bull is bred and sold to produce calves. The…

www.brahman.com.au

Ken

Isn't higher sperm production correlated to the ability to have more sperm to settle more cows in a shorter time period?
Number 1 from your article;

Maybe I explained it wrong or poorly but isn't that the same thing? As long as libido is the same in two bulls shouldn't the one with a bigger scrotal be able to settle more cows in a smaller time frame?

 

[TCRanch]

Holy crap, over 40?????? What kind of breed do you run?

I got Tallywacker as a yearling, don't know the results of his BSE prior to purchase. But his scrotal circumference at 2 years old was 43, went up to 46 last year and he measured a whopping 49 this year at 4 years old. Angus. Slow your roll, buddy, and don't hurt that precious cargo!!

 

[GoWyo]

I had a yearling bull test at 44 cm last spring. The problem was he had persistent vesiculitis (high white blood cell count) and we couldn't get rid of it entirely. Finally kicked him out with the cows at the end of breeding season and retested him this spring he was 43 cm and all cleaned up and tested very well.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

I have Black Simmental bulls.
If you have a bull with a body condition of 4 i would think that could effect the sperm amount and quality. Why is he so thin?

As already mentioned, our Bodyscore goes from 1-5. 1 being the skinniest. Not sure which indicator a vet uses to give the score, but in our case 4 is just about too fat for me. Then again, it's the start of the season so they'll loose some of that weight in the next coming months.
Just bothers me when the bulls can't keep up running the 2-3 miles to the summer pasture with the cows. They were all lagging behind this year...... lazy asses LOL

 

[sunnyblueskies]

The average number of sperm in an ejaculate is in the 1/1.5 BILLION range. A straw for AI is 10 to 40 million. How many of the excess sperms would have done the job if the one that was successful hadn't been there? I'd have to doubt large nuts and excess sperm does much in settling cows. Could it be the quality of the sperm that makes the difference?
But hey, I could be wrong.
Makes me wonder how soon we will see bulls hung like a dairy cow's udder...

I kind of agree with you.
The tendency of scrotal circumference seems to be up and up. From what I understand the bovine practitioners association, which gives the guidelines, had to update the information and it was a few centimeter up.
A bull with big big nuts but poor sperm quality isn't going to get more cows pregnant then a bull with smaller nuts but excellent sperm quality. I would say bigger nuts could get injured so much easier, same like big udders.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Kenny the original poster is from Canada where body condition is generally scored 1-5 so a bull scored at 4 would be in quite good condition definitely not thin.
Another point of interest with regards to the BSE is that I have had a number of people that attend several bull sales in the USA mainly in Montana and the Dakotas but also other states say that bulls will consistently have a 2 or 3 cm larger scrotal measurement when done by a American vet compared to if measured by a Canadian vet.

What's the reason for that? You'd think a measuring band would be the same, the dimension of a centimeter or inch is set. Strange.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Not true, the ampulla are the storage area of the bull.

The Nuts and bolts of bull fertility - Australian Brahman Breeders Association

BRAHMAN NEWS DECEMBER 2015 ISSUE #189 PAGE 24 By Ced Wise on behalf of Rocky Repro This article is based on a presentation Ced made at a forum sponsored by Rocky Repro at CQLX, following the ABBA Annual General Meeting. Above all else, a bull is bred and sold to produce calves. The…

www.brahman.com.au

Ken

That is an excellent article, I did get lost in some of the scientifical discussion, but it explains everything really well!!! Thanks for sharing this.

 

[simme]

What's the reason for that? You'd think a measuring band would be the same, the dimension of a centimeter or inch is set. Strange.

For sure, the measuring tape part is fixed - all steel with printed numbers. But the bull part, not so much. There is probably some change with temperature and time of day. But I think the biggest variable is how tight you pull the tape. The official use is to "just snug it up", but how snug is that and how repeatable? Give a steel tape to several people and ask them to measure the waist size on a person. I suspect there would be a range. Lots of stuff inside that can move around and be compressed when the measurement is taken. Due to the person with the tape and reactions from the person being measured. I suspect it is the same measuring testicles inside a scrotum.

 

[wbvs58]

Isn't higher sperm production correlated to the ability to have more sperm to settle more cows in a shorter time period?
Number 1 from your article;
View attachment 59702
Maybe I explained it wrong or poorly but isn't that the same thing? As long as libido is the same in two bulls shouldn't the one with a bigger scrotal be able to settle more cows in a smaller time frame?

But you were talking about the storage of the sperm which does not happen in the testes but in the ampulla which is up inside the pelvis.
We all like to see big balls but in reality a bull around the 40cm mark will do the job just as well as the one with the big nuts. He will have just as much stored ready to go to work multiple times when needed.

Ken

 

[MACVSOG]

For sure, the measuring tape part is fixed - all steel with printed numbers. But the bull part, not so much. There is probably some change with temperature and time of day. But I think the biggest variable is how tight you pull the tape. The official use is to "just snug it up", but how snug is that and how repeatable? Give a steel tape to several people and ask them to measure the waist size on a person. I suspect there would be a range. Lots of stuff inside that can move around and be compressed when the measurement is taken. Due to the person with the tape and reactions from the person being measured. I suspect it is the same measuring testicles inside a scrotum.

this conversation is making me a little bit "nuts".

there are lots of variable involved as duly noted. those results are what we usually go by but no guarantees. i had one bull years ago that did not score too well, but i liked him and he bred everything. i mistakenly moved a couple younger bulls with him. they spent more time chasing him than doing their job.

i god rid of both of them and retired the older hull after 8+ years. i have kept a few of his offspring over the yers that all tessted much higher than he did..
all bulls drop in productivity as they age, some dramatically perhaps due to injury or libido issues. i have heard that mentioned regarding all males but now aware of same..

but that is reminding me that i will be testing bulls at all my places next month. (will this month now) happy 4th

 

[kenny thomas]

As already mentioned, our Bodyscore goes from 1-5. 1 being the skinniest. Not sure which indicator a vet uses to give the score, but in our case 4 is just about too fat for me. Then again, it's the start of the season so they'll loose some of that weight in the next coming months.
Just bothers me when the bulls can't keep up running the 2-3 miles to the summer pasture with the cows. They were all lagging behind this year...... lazy asses LOL

Thanks for the explanation. A 4 here is pretty thin is why i commended like i did.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Thanks for the explanation. A 4 here is pretty thin is why i commended like i did.

No worries!!!!