Sperm count.

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504RP

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What percent sperm count should you exspect on a BSE of a young replacement bull your buying ? Or any other results to respect ?
 
Are you trying to play it safe, or have you seen issues with less than 85 ?
I know that count can fluctuate at different times of year.
Ambient temperature plays a big role in motility.
Personally I don't want to gamble with less than 85, in today's markets that has potential to be catastrophic.
 
Is it hard to find bulls that test 85 % sperm count ? And is Motility & Morphology measured in percent ? If so what percent should you look for that indicates good test results ?

And what else outside of % 85 sperm count should you look for from a BSE ?
 
What one vet called 85 another might call 75 as it is a bit of a judgement call. BCS of the bull and current nutrition are important though.
 
Talked to a prospective breeder about buying a bull this morning. Ask him who he got to do BSE on his bulls. The vet he used is the same vet another breeder told me about. Both breeders commented on how good the vet Is.

The breeder i talked with this morning said that he runs 300 head and is a forth generation cattlemen. He said he didn't sale his bulls as registered and that they breed the genetics and traits they want into their operation from since he has taken over the operation for the last 25 year's and that they just keep around 10 bulls every year that they think will make good bulls That they sale to neighbors or people they know that might need a good bull. The ones that don't sale are cut and put on a feed lot.

Ask him if it was unreasonable to exspect a bull to have an 85% sperm count. He said he never sales a bull with a count lower than that. Told me about that vet I have been hearing about that he uses. Said that last year the vet failed a nice looking bull that he had because of a deformity on one of the bull's testicles.

He said something like that vet will tell you just like it is and won't hold anything back if he finds something wrong with the bull on a BSE.

I told him that was exactly the kind of vet I am looking for. So i went by and met this vet this morning.

I really feel this vets repretation is ligitment. I have been trying to locate breeders in my area.

This vet ask me what breed I am looking for. He was like the yellow page's. He could tell you who where and what no problem.

Ask him if expecting a bull to have a 85 % sperm count was unreasonable. He not at all. Said 85 % or higher !!! Isn't unreasonable at all.

When i got back in my truck. I called a Hereford breeder with whom I looked at some bulls Saturday evening that had a 18 month old bull that I liked and told them if he passed his BSE with a 85 % sperm count. I would buy him.

The breeder said well our vets say that 70 % and above will work and that asking 85 % might be asking too much ?

Said they had two other bulls sold they were going to have tested sometime this week. Ask if i was interested in the bull. Told them yes but from what i have been told exspecting a bull to test 85 % isn't unreasonable and that i needed to talk to my vet before i comitted to buying the bull. They said do you want us to have him tested by our vets. I said let me get back with you.

Yesterday I got to thinking about things and didn't want them to miss out on saleing the bull while waiting on me to confirm I would buy it.

So i called them yesterday evening and told them if they had someone else come by and wanted to buy it to go ahead and sale it. That I didn't want to be the cause of them missing out on a sale. And after talking with this vet i have heard about says that 70 % is ok and if what i am exspecting 85 % is unreasonable. I would call them back and if they still had the bull i wiuld buy it then.

I could tell by the tone in their voice they didn't like that at all. They hadn't had anyone come to look at the bull from the time I left at 6 p.m Saturday until 6 p.m Sunday. So i had not caused them a chance to sale the bull.

So after talking to this vet today and him telling me it isn't nothing to exspect a bull to have a 85 % or Higher sperm count.

I called that Hereford breeder right then and told them I wasn't interested in the bull, what I was told about sperm count and that I was buying a bull closer to home so that I could have my own vet test him before i bought it.

Again I don't think they were happy. Not that I will lose any sleep over it. But I think that any reputable breeder wouldn't have any problem with a customer exspecting a bull to pass a BSE with a sperm count of 85 % or higher.
 
What one vet called 85 another might call 75 as it is a bit of a judgement call. BCS of the bull and current nutrition are important though.
I thought about that too. I will be having this vet that I think knows his stuff do a BSE on a bull sometime this week and see what he says.

I ask my vet that failed my bull because of a 20 % sperm count how they determined that reading and he said by dividing the slide up into 4 quadrants and totaling each quadrant up.

Just guessing he is estimating what percentage of live sperm appears to be in each quadrant ?

I would think with today's technology their should be microscopes equipped with sensors that are able to take the guess work out of it. If I am right most vets should come up with pretty much the same results.
 
I would expect bulls developed on grass would have the best BSE score as a general rule as compared to bulls that are fattened up with grain.
 
I would expect bulls developed on grass would have the best BSE score as a general rule as compared to bulls that are fattened up with grain.
I didn't think about it along thoes lines but what your saying might be right.

It's pretty amazing at how big some of these 16 and 18 month old bulls are and how fat most all of them are

Not real sure that is a good thing health wise ? Having bulls look like that is more appealing to a buyer I would think.

Wonder if some growers ever use steroids sort of like body builders ?
 
I hadn't heard an actual recommendation of using a bull that tests over 85% but it makes total sense. I have noticed that some bulls get a higher percentage bred than others, and I do believe that it correlates with a higher score. I have also noticed that some lines are more potent and typically test better than their contemporaries. We usually have our bulls tested in March or April. The way I figure it the temperature gets considerably hotter in the months following that and thus could lower the count some, so I like to have bulls that test highly.
I have noticed that certain bloodlines seem to excel in that area. For Instance in Angus the New Design 036 descendants that I have used, a grandson by the ND 323 bull, a son of GAR Predestined, a son of PA Power Tool, and sons of that bull, have all tested extremely well. The vets have made comments on multiple occasions that some of those individual bulls have tested significantly higher than others we had tested those days.
 
We have both Rainfall and Powertool babies now. I don't have their actual number in front of me. Our cow Sky breed back after having a baby the very next month. She had this years calf almost to the date of last year's calf. She had "Gucci" February 25 2020 and "13" February 15 2021. That's Powertools calf. Herfy has a Rainfall baby. She did really good for that to be her first calf. Pretty sure their sperm is good, we never had it tested.
 
Talked to a prospective breeder about buying a bull this morning. Ask him who he got to do BSE on his bulls. The vet he used is the same vet another breeder told me about. Both breeders commented on how good the vet Is.

The breeder i talked with this morning said that he runs 300 head and is a forth generation cattlemen. He said he didn't sale his bulls as registered and that they breed the genetics and traits they want into their operation from since he has taken over the operation for the last 25 year's and that they just keep around 10 bulls every year that they think will make good bulls That they sale to neighbors or people they know that might need a good bull. The ones that don't sale are cut and put on a feed lot.

Ask him if it was unreasonable to exspect a bull to have an 85% sperm count. He said he never sales a bull with a count lower than that. Told me about that vet I have been hearing about that he uses. Said that last year the vet failed a nice looking bull that he had because of a deformity on one of the bull's testicles.

He said something like that vet will tell you just like it is and won't hold anything back if he finds something wrong with the bull on a BSE.

I told him that was exactly the kind of vet I am looking for. So i went by and met this vet this morning.

I really feel this vets repretation is ligitment. I have been trying to locate breeders in my area.

This vet ask me what breed I am looking for. He was like the yellow page's. He could tell you who where and what no problem.

Ask him if expecting a bull to have a 85 % sperm count was unreasonable. He not at all. Said 85 % or higher !!! Isn't unreasonable at all.

When i got back in my truck. I called a Hereford breeder with whom I looked at some bulls Saturday evening that had a 18 month old bull that I liked and told them if he passed his BSE with a 85 % sperm count. I would buy him.

The breeder said well our vets say that 70 % and above will work and that asking 85 % might be asking too much ?

Said they had two other bulls sold they were going to have tested sometime this week. Ask if i was interested in the bull. Told them yes but from what i have been told exspecting a bull to test 85 % isn't unreasonable and that i needed to talk to my vet before i comitted to buying the bull. They said do you want us to have him tested by our vets. I said let me get back with you.

Yesterday I got to thinking about things and didn't want them to miss out on saleing the bull while waiting on me to confirm I would buy it.

So i called them yesterday evening and told them if they had someone else come by and wanted to buy it to go ahead and sale it. That I didn't want to be the cause of them missing out on a sale. And after talking with this vet i have heard about says that 70 % is ok and if what i am exspecting 85 % is unreasonable. I would call them back and if they still had the bull i wiuld buy it then.

I could tell by the tone in their voice they didn't like that at all. They hadn't had anyone come to look at the bull from the time I left at 6 p.m Saturday until 6 p.m Sunday. So i had not caused them a chance to sale the bull.

So after talking to this vet today and him telling me it isn't nothing to exspect a bull to have a 85 % or Higher sperm count.

I called that Hereford breeder right then and told them I wasn't interested in the bull, what I was told about sperm count and that I was buying a bull closer to home so that I could have my own vet test him before i bought it.

Again I don't think they were happy. Not that I will lose any sleep over it. But I think that any reputable breeder wouldn't have any problem with a customer exspecting a bull to pass a BSE with a sperm count of 85 % or higher.
Some salesman will tell you anything to sell their product. Your on the right track searching and finding your own answers.
 
The only thing I will add, from my limited experience, is most of my bad decisions I was uncomfortable with from the get go but went thru with it. A lot of times it was situations just like you described where I was unsure and defaulted to some one else because I assumed they were the professionals and knew better. That's not always the case.

I think you made the right call. Do business with people who keep both parties interests in mind. Transactions need to be a win-win for both sides.

Right or wrong... always be comfortable and understand the purchase or investment you are making.
 
Some salesman will tell you anything to sell their product. Your on the right track searching and finding your own answers.
I've noticed in conversations with some breeders it's very similar to the Green Acres show where Mr. Haney says, "Mr. Douglas, I have just what you need". Oftentimes the end result of those deals is a similar outcome too.
 
I hadn't heard an actual recommendation of using a bull that tests over 85% but it makes total sense. I have noticed that some bulls get a higher percentage bred than others, and I do believe that it correlates with a higher score. I have also noticed that some lines are more potent and typically test better than their contemporaries. We usually have our bulls tested in March or April. The way I figure it the temperature gets considerably hotter in the months following that and thus could lower the count some, so I like to have bulls that test highly.
I have noticed that certain bloodlines seem to excel in that area. For Instance in Angus the New Design 036 descendants that I have used, a grandson by the ND 323 bull, a son of GAR Predestined, a son of PA Power Tool, and sons of that bull, have all tested extremely well. The vets have made comments on multiple occasions that some of those individual bulls have tested significantly higher than others we had tested
I've noticed in conversations with some breeders it's very similar to the Green Acres show where Mr. Haney says, "Mr. Douglas, I have just what you need". Oftentimes the end result of those deals is a similar outcome too.
Well too many think numbers don't lie, but liars figure!
You're buying the breeders reputation.
 

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