Spend money on fertilizer or weed killer first?

[OklaBrangusBreeder]

Trying to decide whether it is better to spray weed killer or fertilize weeds and all?

Opinion?

 

[iowafarmer]

Kill weeds then fertilize. Weeds take mositure and nutrients. It does depend how bad your weed problem is though.

 

[chippie]

ditto

 

[skyhightree1]

You would be surprised if you spray and kill weeds how nice your grass will come back and look without fertilizer... Weeds take up alot of nutrients your good pasture needs

 

[3MileRanch]

Spray then fertilize. If you can only afford to do one or the other then kill the weeds. Acording to OSU killing the weeds is supposed to give you a lb for lb exchange with grass. Regardless, why would you want to fertilize weeds. Save the fertilizer money till the weeds are gone.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

OSU ain't taking driught into account. If you have another drought this year a ground cover of weeds is better than no ground cover at all.

 

[3MileRanch]

OSU ain't taking driught into account. If you have another drought this year a ground cover of weeds is better than no ground cover at all.

Yeah, they are taking drought into account. I presented that exact question to them. The answer was kill the weeds and the grass will grow. If there is water for weeds then there is water for some grass and they stated a lb for lb conversion.

Regardless, the question was presented about weed killer and fertilizer, drought wasnt in the question. There is no use fertilizing weeds so if you cant afford to do both or dont want to do both then do the weed killer.

 

[Bigfoot]

I would go after the weeds. I used to just fertilize, and clip pasture in August. I started getting aggressive on weeds, and made some big improvements in my grass. I'm not sure about the pound for pound, it does seem reasonable. I do know weed control is cheap for what you get. There is a huge return on the money spent. You can't say that about fertilizer in a drought year. You can on chemicle for weeds.

 

[BC]

OSU ain't taking driught into account. If you have another drought this year a ground cover of weeds is better than no ground cover at all.

Here is some work done by Dr. David Bade at Texas A&M that shows controlling weeds in a dry year or wet year produces more grass. He also compared fertilize only.

http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/BadeInfo1.pdf

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I will spray once in a while. But will not buy fertilize to dam high. Lots of folks in this area the last two years have sprayed and fertilized drought killed there grass. I still got my grass. Think i will keep doing it my way.

 

[Richardin52]

I think it depends on what you have for weeds? Some weeds can be controlled by increasing stocking rates. Adding cows will make you money buying spray won't.

 

[3MileRanch]

I think it depends on what you have for weeds? Some weeds can be controlled by increasing stocking rates. Adding cows will make you money buying spray won't.

Im curious which weeds can be controlled by raising yoru stocking rate? The only thing I call a weed is a plant the cows wont eat. I dont see how raising your stocking rate will kill weeds without killing the grass and other edible plants.

Of course now that I have typed that it occurs to me that my cows will eat goat heads seed and all in the spring so I guess I can see how it might work. To hit a stocking rate that will wipe them out though Im sure I would still have to supplement feed and that would cost a lot more than the spray.

Im curious what your thoughts on how increased stocking rates as a weed killer might work.

 

[skyhightree1]

It will be cheaper to spray the weeds lol

 

[Richardin52]

I think it depends on what you have for weeds? Some weeds can be controlled by increasing stocking rates. Adding cows will make you money buying spray won't.

Im curious which weeds can be controlled by raising yoru stocking rate? The only thing I call a weed is a plant the cows wont eat. I dont see how raising your stocking rate will kill weeds without killing the grass and other edible plants.

Of course now that I have typed that it occurs to me that my cows will eat goat heads seed and all in the spring so I guess I can see how it might work. To hit a stocking rate that will wipe them out though Im sure I would still have to supplement feed and that would cost a lot more than the spray.

Im curious what your thoughts on how increased stocking rates as a weed killer might work.

A few that come to mind Canada thistle, golden rod, dandy lions. I have seen cattle strip the leaves off mature golden rod, eat the tops off milk weed and trample what they did not eat.
They seem to do a better job of knocking everything they don't eat down and trampling it if my cells are long and narrow.

 

[Banjo]

In a drought, fertilize will do more harm than good. Those of you in Ky remember the drought here in 2007-08. '07 was the first year we chose not to fertilize, those that did, their pastures just burnt up. I haven't used any since.
If you have a major weed problem its because you have a grass growing problem or too much bare ground. all that usually translates into an overgrazing problem. Keeping the grass picked short causes the root systems to be shallow and not very vigorous. which creates an environment for weeds to explode. Fertilize, herbicides are just band-aids covering a deeper problem and is very costly as everyone knows and is a never ending cycle.

 

[3MileRanch]

We had a drought year last year and the year before. I fertilized bermuda in the spring and my wheat pastures in the fall when I planted. I understand not fertilizing when its dry, but it doesnt take all that much water, even a heavy dew will be enough. You just have to be smart about when you lay the fertilizer out.

I disagree that fertilizers and herbicides are a band aid. If you are properly applying fertilizer after a soil test then you are healing the soil or taking it back to what it should be for your crop. If you dont kill the weeds first then you are just waisting fertilizer money feeding weeds. Granted, that if you are over seeding you may be able to pressure the weeds out.

Yes, herbicide and fertilizer are costly, but so are vacinations. They all pay for themselves in the long run. The difference between herbicide and vacines is eventually if you are doing your job right you wont need the herbicide anymore, lol.

 

[Banjo]

We had a drought year last year and the year before. I fertilized bermuda in the spring and my wheat pastures in the fall when I planted. I understand not fertilizing when its dry, but it doesnt take all that much water, even a heavy dew will be enough. You just have to be smart about when you lay the fertilizer out.

I disagree that fertilizers and herbicides are a band aid. If you are properly applying fertilizer after a soil test then you are healing the soil or taking it back to what it should be for your crop. If you dont kill the weeds first then you are just waisting fertilizer money feeding weeds. Granted, that if you are over seeding you may be able to pressure the weeds out.

Yes, herbicide and fertilizer are costly, but so are vacinations. They all pay for themselves in the long run. The difference between herbicide and vacines is eventually if you are doing your job right you wont need the herbicide anymore, lol.

Vaccines really aren't that costly. I just do the blackleg and tetanus simply because it is so cheap and I've got the calf up anyway. Many years I didn't even do that.....I think I just do it out of fear because that's what we are "supposed to do" ....never seen a calf die of tetanus ever on my place, did see a pig once with tetanus 30 years ago.
As far as herbicides go....there are millions and millions of weed seeds in the soil bank and you will never vanquish them all. Fertilize and herbicides on a continuous basis is not sustainable. What if you woke up tomorrow and fertilize was $2000/ton or $3000/ton and feeder cattle were off .30/lb. ?
most farmers/ranchers have an off farm job or business to subsidize their operation. I could spend $10k to $20k a yr. on fertilize, herbicides easily. That would be 15 to 30.... 5 to 600lb feeders. Now if I had 15 to 30 cows that wouldn't breed back or 15 to 30 calves that just died or wouldn't grow because I didn't "fertilize" properly then it might pay...but that's not the case. I seldom have a cow that won't breed back and have less than a 5% calf loss each year out of a 100 hd.

 

[3MileRanch]

If you dont continually turn the soil those seeds in the soil seed bank will never come up.

I agree, vacines arent that coslty, I was just tryign to make a point about getting money back after you put it in. You could probably skip vacinating for a few years, but sooner or later it will catch up to you.

I think we will have to agree to dissagree on the herbicide and fertilizer. I think its money well spent and more than pays for itself.

 

[Bigfoot]

I can spray for less than $10 an acre. I don't know what the return on that investment is, buts its got to be pretty high. I went a little crazy on a calf lot I had overgrazed, and had just about killed the grass out. I sprayed it 3 times, and didn't reseed it. It did a complete 180, and came back strong. My day job has been kicking my tail this spring, and the rain has held me up to. I have only sprayed my horse lots.

 

[Banjo]

If you dont continually turn the soil those seeds in the soil seed bank will never come up.

I agree, vacines arent that coslty, I was just tryign to make a point about getting money back after you put it in. You could probably skip vacinating for a few years, but sooner or later it will catch up to you.

I think we will have to agree to dissagree on the herbicide and fertilizer. I think its money well spent and more than pays for itself.

We will have to disagree on that one...its your money after all.
I am curious however about how not vaccinating will catch up with me after a few years... If I brought in stockers once a week or so maybe, but in a basically closed cow/calf operation how is not vaccinating for everything under the sun going to catch up with me?