South Devon

Help Support CattleToday:

norriscathy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
0
Location
Northeast Texas
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
2
Location
South La
norriscathy":2lkncla3 said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.
 

Caustic Burno

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Messages
27,108
Reaction score
1,941
Location
Big Thicket East Texas
la4angus":pn5zklhj said:
norriscathy":pn5zklhj said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.

Just for clarity La4 are you saying you can cross anything with a German Limmi and its an improvement, not trying to stir old Norris up just wondering minds want to know.
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
2
Location
South La
Caustic Burno":35k5hvha said:
la4angus":35k5hvha said:
norriscathy":35k5hvha said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.

Just for clarity La4 are you saying you can cross anything with a German Limmi and its an improvement, not trying to stir old Norris up just wondering minds want to know.
Not anything. A longhorn probaly wouldn't improve meat quality, but most British breeds would. Stay away fropm the continentals by all means. Maines probaly give you crippled up calves.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Kansas
la4angus":24j57b8t said:
Caustic Burno":24j57b8t said:
la4angus":24j57b8t said:
norriscathy":24j57b8t said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.

Maines probaly give you crippled up calves.

What makes you think Maine calves would be crippled?
 

la4angus

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
5,063
Reaction score
2
Location
South La
aplusmnt":17e4k5as said:
la4angus":17e4k5as said:
Caustic Burno":17e4k5as said:
la4angus":17e4k5as said:
norriscathy":17e4k5as said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.

Maines probaly give you crippled up calves.

What makes you think Maine calves would be crippled?
Because of the genetic defects that they have. You as a big Maine breeder should be aware of it.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Kansas
la4angus":jhxt0gz1 said:
aplusmnt":jhxt0gz1 said:
la4angus":jhxt0gz1 said:
Caustic Burno":jhxt0gz1 said:
la4angus":jhxt0gz1 said:
norriscathy":jhxt0gz1 said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.

Maines probaly give you crippled up calves.

What makes you think Maine calves would be crippled?
Because of the genetic defects that they have. You as a big Maine breeder should be aware of it.

What Genetic defects? Are you talking about Maine-Anjou cattle or club calf bulls? I know of lots of problems with Club Calf bulls, which are usually 3 way or 4 way crosses of Maine, Shorthorn, Simmental, Angus and Chi crosses. But just not sure what Genetic defects you think the Maine-Anjou breed rather it be the red full bloods or the Black Purebreds which are Maine X Angus. Educate me please!

Club Calf Bulls are not the same as Maine-Anjou Cattle.

Maybe you got them mixed up with Angus? Seems they have a few Genetic Defects
http://www.angus.org/pubs/defects.html
 
OP
N

norriscathy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
391
Reaction score
0
Location
Northeast Texas
Caustic Burno":2m5oxg2d said:
la4angus":2m5oxg2d said:
norriscathy":2m5oxg2d said:
Aussie, saw on one of the other threads that you had some South Devon. Very few of them around here. We're thinking of crossing them with our Gelbvieh to improve the eating quality of our meat. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I think the South Devon would make an improvement in the quality of your meat.

Just for clarity La4 are you saying you can cross anything with a German Limmi and its an improvement, not trying to stir old Norris up just wondering minds want to know.

You really know how to hurt a guy!
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,300
Reaction score
1,193
Location
Central Upstate New York
I assume they are referring to the TH defect. Here is what I just received from Amer Simm Assn.:

* Follow is the ASA Policy for monitoring TH genetic defect:
1. ASA will test the top 50 sires based on the number of progeny reported in the previous calendar year and thereafter any new sire entering the top 50 sires list.
2. Progeny out of a registered suspect animal can not be registered until the suspect animal (parent) is tested.
3. A suspect animal is an animal who is a) out of a TH carrier and has not been test free or b) who has not been tested and has 1/8 or more Shorthorn, Maine Anjou or Chianina blood.
4. ASA's procedure for TH testing includes parentage verification.

So I have to believe that the MA & Chi's also are carriers, not just the Shorthorns & Clubby bulls.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Kansas
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3ax49rmv said:
I assume they are referring to the TH defect. Here is what I just received from Amer Simm Assn.:

* Follow is the ASA Policy for monitoring TH genetic defect:
1. ASA will test the top 50 sires based on the number of progeny reported in the previous calendar year and thereafter any new sire entering the top 50 sires list.
2. Progeny out of a registered suspect animal can not be registered until the suspect animal (parent) is tested.
3. A suspect animal is an animal who is a) out of a TH carrier and has not been test free or b) who has not been tested and has 1/8 or more Shorthorn, Maine Anjou or Chianina blood.
4. ASA's procedure for TH testing includes parentage verification.

So I have to believe that the MA & Chi's also are carriers, not just the Shorthorns & Clubby bulls.

I am in no way an expert on Tibial hemimelia (TH). I am not a big shorthorn fan. But it is a big problem for Shorthorn people. I would say that the Simmental people are just being extra cautious. Maybe because lots of Shorthorns are crossed with Maine and Chi and can be registered as low percentages. So you might have a Bull that is a TH carrier that is a Maintainer (not a Pb Maine or Full-blood) which would basically make him a club calf bull by most peoples standards. You could have a bull that is 3/4 Shorthorn and 1/4 Maine and he could be registered as both a Short Horn and as a Maintainer in the Maine breed.

But as far as I know there is no chance of TH in full blood or even PB Maine. There is just as much of a chance of it in Simmental since they also will register cattle that are not 100%. I would say if you used a PB Maine bull on Gelbvieh you would be as safe from TH as using a Simmental on them. Got to have the Shorthorn in there somewhere.

http://ard.unl.edu/rn/0900/calf.html
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,300
Reaction score
1,193
Location
Central Upstate New York
aplusmnt, it wouldn't hurt to double check with the MA breed assn.
ASA IS being VERY cautious. their new policy was just sent to me last week. They are going to test the top 50 Simm sires used each year, to make sure it hasn't already slipped into the breed. And nothing from now on, will get registered without testing if it is from "suspect" pedigree."
It's good to see they are so concerned about keeping our herdbook "clean".
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Kansas
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3528iwus said:
aplusmnt, it wouldn't hurt to double check with the MA breed assn.
ASA IS being VERY cautious. their new policy was just sent to me last week. They are going to test the top 50 Simm sires used each year, to make sure it hasn't already slipped into the breed. And nothing from now on, will get registered without testing if it is from "suspect" pedigree."
It's good to see they are so concerned about keeping our herdbook "clean".

I checked with some other sources and as far as I can see it has to come from Shorthorn somewhere down the line. Problem is when you get into these breeds that register low percentage from commercial cows things can sneak in and no way to even know they could be there besides the new test for it. Without testing each Sire brought into your breed, the only way to know for sure it is not there is to use Full Blood, Maines, Angus, Chi, etc.....I know their is Maintainer Bulls that are TH and I am sure their is some Carriers in some Registered Simmental also.

Somewhere there has to be a Shorthorn in the wood pile, just might be hard to know if he is there with out testing all future sires. Good decision Simmental is making! Guess this is one plus for the Angus guys that do not allow other breeds to register as Percentage Angus.
 

Aero

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
1,786
Reaction score
12
Location
NC
aplusmnt":wv1e6vo3 said:
Maybe you got them mixed up with Angus? Seems they have a few Genetic Defects
http://www.angus.org/pubs/defects.html
just because the Angus Association makes the animals known publicly that have genetic defects, doesnt mean Angus have any more or less defects than any other breeds. it just means they are serious about identifying and preventing propagation of more defects in the breed.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,300
Reaction score
1,193
Location
Central Upstate New York
I think all breeds have had genetic defects. It just a matter of how agreesively they deal with them.
From what I understand, Shorthorns are not pulling papers or stopping cattle from being registered carrying the TH. Has anyone heard differently??
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Kansas
Jeanne - Simme Valley":she1oc5q said:
I think all breeds have had genetic defects. It just a matter of how agreesively they deal with them.
From what I understand, Shorthorns are not pulling papers or stopping cattle from being registered carrying the TH. Has anyone heard differently??

I think you are right Jeanne, from what I heard they will not even list those that are TH carriers unless the owner of the Bull agrees to it. I might be wrong, and they are probably changing rules as we speak (or we should hope they are).

I have been doing some more reading on TH and from what I have read they have traced it back to a specific imported Shorthorn Bull that possible could have got it from a Galloway. And spread like wildfire through extensive line-breeding.
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,300
Reaction score
1,193
Location
Central Upstate New York
This just adds to the reason you should research the breed associations along with the breed of choice before making a decision on what breed should I raise.
If producers would report genetic defects immediately, AND, the breed assn. was agressive on finding a cause/carrier that would nip it in the bud.
 

aplusmnt

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,977
Reaction score
0
Location
Southeast Kansas
Jeanne - Simme Valley":edgopu1t said:
This just adds to the reason you should research the breed associations along with the breed of choice before making a decision on what breed should I raise.
If producers would report genetic defects immediately, AND, the breed assn. was agressive on finding a cause/carrier that would nip it in the bud.

I agree! This thread has made me wonder more about the way the Maine-Anjou association is handling this problem. Never planned on using any Shorthorn bulls so was not worrying about it much. But now after seeing how some of those percentage bulls could have it, makes a guy wonder. Noticed that SEK Genetics new Semen catalog is listing the TH negative and TH positive bulls. But once again this is probably based on the owners volunteering this information.

Noticed there was two Simmental in there "After shock" and "Theobald 969" that are registered Simmental. They have bloodline on dams side that could have TH in it possibly. Is the Simmental association making already registered bulls such as these get TH tested?
 

Jeanne - Simme Valley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
12,300
Reaction score
1,193
Location
Central Upstate New York
I contacted ASA and asked WHAT happens if an animal test positive for TH:
"Regarding the TH defect issue, our procedure is as follows: If an animal tests positive for the TH defect, it is noted on the registration paper. That is the only thing that happens, and as people are making their breeding decisions, that information will be available to them. It then becomes a matter of time through breeding selection until the problem is solved."

Than I asked if this information will be available to us.
"There will be a list on the website which will be updated on a regular basis. This will begin after April 1."
 
Top