Someone is bullish on the market

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How many months do you graze?

Hay costs kill me.
Most years we can graze seven months, we grow hay very cheaply with no fertilizer or water pumping costs. We do buy some supplemental pellets and some hay. Taxes are cheap too.
 
$600 a steer calf isn't hard to do in my area. You have to be willing to spend some money on facilities and feed to get there though. Most people I deal with just see any out going money as a dead expense or they think the pay back is just too far out to even try.
I see a lot of mediocre cattle in many parts of the country eating the same feed that good cattle should be eating.
 
I see a lot of mediocre cattle in many parts of the country eating the same feed that good cattle should be eating.
Yes, this and the breed back is key. I'm working on the better cattle part every year. I've never understood the buy cheap cattle deal. It must work for some but was dragging me in a hole I couldn't feed my way out of.
 
Yes, this and the breed back is key. I'm working on the better cattle part every year. I've never understood the buy cheap cattle deal. It must work for some but was dragging me in a hole I couldn't feed my way out of.
The trick is to buy good replacement cattle cheap. Buying junk can make you money too, you just have to buy them cheaper yet.
Use the best bulls you can afford to, they make you money.
 
I calve in a 3 month window so all the calves are fairly tight. Wean at 7-9 months when time seems right. Feed the yearlings through the winter, this cost about $125 a head. Turn out on good grass and try to rotate them with the cattle. Yearlings eat less so this is possible. Sell when they weigh 775-825. Pretty much keep the calves until their 17-18 months old. They'll bring $1,150-1,250 a head.

Problem is to do this efficiently I spent about $25k in facility upgrades. Most people won't do that. I also spent money on being able to get calves to weaning age efficiently…..
Who picks up the tab for the cow's upkeep?
 
The yearling does at sale time. It's a cycle…..I can only say what works for me. I went and looked at 2020's calf crop today, they're eating grass and making about $1.50 a day. Thinking I'll ship next Saturday if tomorrow opens up good. Also looked at 2021's calf crop….doesn't look as promising but time and feed should turn them around, they're still young.
 
I calve in a 3 month window so all the calves are fairly tight. Wean at 7-9 months when time seems right. Feed the yearlings through the winter, this cost about $125 a head. Turn out on good grass and try to rotate them with the cattle. Yearlings eat less so this is possible. Sell when they weigh 775-825. Pretty much keep the calves until their 17-18 months old. They'll bring $1,150-1,250 a head.

Problem is to do this efficiently I spent about $25k in facility upgrades. Most people won't do that. I also spent money on being able to get calves to weaning age efficiently…..
Guess my first lesson should be how to sell 825 lb calves for $1250. I can't sell 8wts for anywhere near 1.50 here
 
Guess my first lesson should be how to sell 825 lb calves for $1250. I can't sell 8wts for anywhere near 1.50 here
You won't every year but watching the market helps and being able to hold in a down market is ideal. Take a look at Oklahoma National Stockyards report for last week. Like I said I can only say what works for me. A 800 pound calf won't bring near as much as a 800 pound long weaned yearling. Buyers need frame so they can finish them, not rolly polly 10-12 month olds. I can't speak to the market your in.

Edit…my avg rate of gain is only about 1.25# a day from weaning to sale time. That's were the $1.50 a day comes in.
 
You won't every year but watching the market helps and being able to hold in a down market is ideal. Take a look at Oklahoma National Stockyards report for last week. Like I said I can only say what works for me. A 800 pound calf won't bring near as much as a 800 pound long weaned yearling. Buyers need frame so they can finish them, not rolly polly 10-12 month olds. I can't speak to the market your in.

Edit…my avg rate of gain is only about 1.25# a day from weaning to sale time. That's were the $1.50 a day comes in.
To make it easier to figure let me guess your average weaning weight is 500. Is that close? If so and you sell at 800 with a gain of 1.25 per day then you are keeping them 8 months after weaning. But guess you already said you sell at 17-18 months. Why do you need 30 ton feed bins, feed truck and accessories to gain 1.25lb a day?
I would also expect that 50% of your calves are heifers and according to the last report.i can get from OKC heifers are 20 cents back.
I can't hold a calf for 18 months and make a profit at the prices we can get here. I'm glad someone can.
 
To make it easier to figure let me guess your average weaning weight is 500. Is that close? If so and you sell at 800 with a gain of 1.25 per day then you are keeping them 8 months after weaning. But guess you already said you sell at 17-18 months. Why do you need 30 ton feed bins, feed truck and accessories to gain 1.25lb a day?
I would also expect that 50% of your calves are heifers and according to the last report.i can get from OKC heifers are 20 cents back.
I can't hold a calf for 18 months and make a profit at the prices we can get here. I'm glad someone can.
You are correct on weaning weight and gain. I'm usually a dime back on heifers though. The feed bin allows me to save on feed cost by buying a truckload at a time. Last I checked 75 cents of sack feed was for the sack. Another plus is not having to go to the feed store everyday. The feed hopper on the truck lets me feed fast and easily in troughs so there's very little to no wasted feed. I feed 6-8#'s a day from weaning in mid November until grass comes on in mid March or so. I feed very little if any hay to the yearlings, thinking 8 bales last year. I could easily push harder and get a better gain but in my experience buyers don't want fleshy calves, they want a long weaned yearling with a big frame. When looking at the OKC report you'll see fleshy calves are always docked pretty hard. Once winter is over it really doesn't cost to run the yearlings so I rotate them in behind the cows and let them eat grass. I'm definitely no expert on this but just tried different things until I found what works for me. One of the things that I think every cattle person should do is work really hard at being able to hold in a down market. I learned that lesson the hard way several years in a row. I also am able to use the feed truck and bin for the mother cows to reduce cost on that side.
 
Lucky> This 30 ton (60000 lb feed bin) Capacity aside what is the formula you shoot for and conversion rate per lb at say at 650 lbs?
Do you forward contract the feed or buy at the market? I would also be interested in the protein content as well.
Selling at 17 - 18 months, does this mean you are running the yearlings on grass with the cows as they are calving?. and gone
before the bulls go in? Thank You LVR
 
You are correct on weaning weight and gain. I'm usually a dime back on heifers though. The feed bin allows me to save on feed cost by buying a truckload at a time. Last I checked 75 cents of sack feed was for the sack. Another plus is not having to go to the feed store everyday. The feed hopper on the truck lets me feed fast and easily in troughs so there's very little to no wasted feed. I feed 6-8#'s a day from weaning in mid November until grass comes on in mid March or so. I feed very little if any hay to the yearlings, thinking 8 bales last year. I could easily push harder and get a better gain but in my experience buyers don't want fleshy calves, they want a long weaned yearling with a big frame. When looking at the OKC report you'll see fleshy calves are always docked pretty hard. Once winter is over it really doesn't cost to run the yearlings so I rotate them in behind the cows and let them eat grass. I'm definitely no expert on this but just tried different things until I found what works for me. One of the things that I think every cattle person should do is work really hard at being able to hold in a down market. I learned that lesson the hard way several years in a row. I also am able to use the feed truck and bin for the mother cows to reduce cost on that side.
Or $35 a bag for mini totes. Our pellets come on a b train 44 metric tons to a load. Nearly $200 cheaper than bulk bag price at the feed store that is 220 miles from us. Our winter feed cost is more than yours but we do winter heifer calves over to spring either custom fed in a lot or background at home and go to grass.
An old buyer friend of mine once said to keep to yearlings. His theory was that lots of times long yearlings have been traded twice by time they go to the lot and guys hope to make $50 to $100 each turn… Why not keep that profit for yourself.
Our feed and steer calves don't get along well. Water belly can be prevalent regardless what mineral changes we try
 
Most years we can graze seven months, we grow hay very cheaply with no fertilizer or water pumping costs. We do buy some supplemental pellets and some hay. Taxes are cheap too.
That would put your hay cost at less than half of mine. Even less if your equipment is fully amortized.

Hay is my #1 expense by far.
 
Lucky> This 30 ton (60000 lb feed bin) Capacity aside what is the formula you shoot for and conversion rate per lb at say at 650 lbs?
Do you forward contract the feed or buy at the market? I would also be interested in the protein content as well.
Selling at 17 - 18 months, does this mean you are running the yearlings on grass with the cows as they are calving?. and gone
before the bulls go in? Thank You LVR
LVR- The feed mix I get is a custom 14% blend that they mix for me. I can't remember off hand everything in it but have it wrote down somewhere. The main thing I wanted was whole cotton seed instead of hulls and something I could feed to yearlings and cows. I actually a 30 and a 15 ton bin so I can order a part load of cubes if needed. I save about $80 a ton on feed with the overhead and don't have to mess with those dang sacks. Loading and unloading 1,000 pounds of feed everyday is hard on the back. They ask me about contracting feed every year but I haven't done that yet. The most it's gone up in one year was $12 and that was last year. I could've changed mixes but didn't want to mess up the bellys. I really don't care about the conversion rate as I'm just trying to grow frame and keep them healthy until the grass gets here. I have spot weighed them and they gained 1.75#'s on feed. It's too hard to get a good reading in the winter though. A long rainy cold week will wipe out the previous weeks gains.

I run the yearlings through the winter in a separate pasture from the cows I set this pasture up with new fences and easy access to the corrals to avoid them getting out as much as possible. Once they go to grass I can rotate them in behind the cows or just leave them be depending on how the grass is that year. You really don't want to run them with the cattle if at all possible. In order to get top dollar on heifers they need to be guaranteed open so you sure don't want a bull with them.
 
That would put your hay cost at less than half of mine. Even less if your equipment is fully amortized.

Hay is my #1 expense by far.
I feed about 2.5 1,200 pound bales to the cow and supplement 3#'s a day. I unroll and feed everyday though. I'm buying hay at $40. Curious to know how much you are feeding? Hay is also the biggest single check I write all year.
We generally feed 100-120 days at a cost of around $150 a head. Looking at going to straight feed and only keeping enough hay for really bad weather.
 
That would put your hay cost at less than half of mine. Even less if your equipment is fully amortized.

Hay is my #1 expense by far.
1700 lb bales, parts, labour, twine, fuel, net wrap and silage plastic and a few hours irrigating with the excavator. No depreciation or hourly cost of iron. Only hard cash out of pocket. Bales were in stack yard for $54 last year. We start cutting next week.
 
I feed about 2.5 1,200 pound bales to the cow and supplement 3#'s a day. I unroll and feed everyday though. I'm buying hay at $40. Curious to know how much you are feeding? Hay is also the biggest single check I write all year.
We generally feed 100-120 days at a cost of around $150 a head. Looking at going to straight feed and only keeping enough hay for really bad weather.
I feed almost 7 900# bales per cow starting in early November going to mid-March. I do not supplement feed. My hay cost per bale is just over $30.
 
I feed almost 7 900# bales per cow starting in early November going to mid-March. I do not supplement feed. My hay cost per bale is just over $30.
That is over 3 tons per cow. That is a lot of hay. At 150 days of feeding that is 42 pounds a day. I fed about 27 pounds per head a day this last winter and the cows came through in real good shape. Farther north, colder weather, all old broken mouth cows, and calved Feb-March. Fed Dec 11 to April 20.
 

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