I was never a fan of Gardiner bulls because in their catalog (it has been a few years ago) they were bragging about 85% of their bulls were ET. This tells me that the female production is questionable, and they really don't know if any or all of those doner cows can actually raise a calf. Most calves were raised by a surrogate recip cow. Also, everything at that time was fixated on single trait line breeding, based entirely on carcass epds. I'm not opposed to a certain amount of line breeding, as long as it is not real close breeding, but if you focus only on line breeding one or two "desirable" traits, you can also be linebreeding one or two "undesirable" traits as well. Many of the "carcass trait" bulls of a few years ago, were also small scrotal bulls. A comparison of those traits in an older ABS semen catalog is a quick way to look at that. (A notable exception to that rule was VDAR New Trend 315. Good carcass traits and large scrotal).