Sold some

[RDFF]

I CURRENTLY don't wean at all... let the cow do it. And I do have some that are nursing both last years and this years calf at times, but for the most part, they "self-wean" them. I however do think it's better to wean the calves off, so that they're not feeding two. Haven't had trouble though with breeding back... You breed them well before you wean the calf off of them, so its not going to affect their fertility there. That does affect some species though, and some more than others. So if within those species, you used selective breeding, you could select for the genetics you found desireable. (Within the human population, nursing "can" suppress the ovulation cycle, for example, and be used somewhat as a natural form of conception control).

 

[Travlr]

We wean at 205 days to give the cow a rest period before the next calf. Also you don't want her to calve while still nursing a bigger calf that could steal the colostrum.

Yeah, I think everyone (except possibly @Rmc) would question allowing an older calf to nurse colostrum. Still, why seven months when a cow could go eight and still be in good shape for the next calf? Or would the extra month pull down the average cow too much? I've weaned at eight, as said, and the cows were fine and the calves spectacular.

 

[Lucky]

8 yrs out of 10 bigger calves will make more money. The people buying these 4-500 weight calves aren't playing the same game as a cow/calf operator. If it cost me $.97 cents a day to feed a calf and my avg daily gain is 1 pound I made a pretty good profit. Around $2.63 a head that at these prices. It's pretty easy to figure out. Of course a 500 pound calf will most likely gain more. From there you watch the market and sell at whatever your time interval or weight range is.

 

[Travlr]

I CURRENTLY don't wean at all... let the cow do it. And I do have some that are nursing both last years and this years calf at times, but for the most part, they "self-wean" them. I however do think it's better to wean the calves off, so that they're not feeding two. Haven't had trouble though with breeding back... You breed them well before you wean the calf off of them, so its not going to affect their fertility there. That does affect some species though, and some more than others. So if within those species, you used selective breeding, you could select for the genetics you found desireable. (Within the human population, nursing "can" suppress the ovulation cycle, for example, and be used somewhat as a natural form of conception control).

Have you noticed a particular age at which the calf gets naturally weaned by the cow?

 

[Lucky]

Yeah, I think everyone (except possibly @Rmc) would question allowing an older calf to nurse colostrum. Still, why seven months when a cow could go eight and still be in good shape for the next calf? Or would the extra month pull down the average cow too much? I've weaned at eight, as said, and the cows were fine and the calves spectacular.

We wean later than 205 days some years. We watch cow and grass conditions and schedule accordingly We don't start calving until February 7th so know our window. Most off the time if we wean late for whatever reason we have to feed the cows a little heavier to catch them up. Would that money be better spent weaning sooner and creep feeding the calves? That's the question

 

[RDFF]

Probably the biggest factor is BCS... we want the cow to be able to put on some weight before calving, because of the demands that will be placed on her after she calves... milking off alot of energy into the new calf, plus we want her to be in good shape and not "stressed thin" in order to breed back on time. So we "bank" some condition on her ahead of calving.

 

[RDFF]

Have you noticed a particular age at which the calf gets naturally weaned by the cow?

Different for every one... but I think it's more that slowly the cow just doesn't produce enough for the calf to depend on, and he becomes more and more dependent on his grazing and water... and they just kind of slowly "drift apart" in dependency. It probably would also depend on hormones somewhat I suppose... if we didn't castrate that calf when young at least... this is just a guess on my part though. I don't castrate till they're almost a year old... want to see how they develop, to determine if there's one out there that I want to keep for a herd bull. As he becomes more "bullish", his interests change... and he "grows up". The heifers do the same, I would expect.

 

[Travlr]

I've always tried to keep my cows the same weight from weaning to calving, over the late fall and early winter months... and then in a weight gaining cycle from calving to breeding in April/May. I think a cow breeds more reliably if she's gaining weight for a couple of months before breeding, so she needs to be "slim" -before- breeding so she has some room to gain weight up until she's bred. I also think this is a natural cycle that cattle go through and they are designed by evolution to go through it this way.

 

[kenny thomas]

Biggest reason for weaning off the bigger calf would be so the cow can build up and produce colostrum for the next calf. If the big calf is still sucking there is 0 colostrum for the baby calf.

 

[Heronfish]

Different for every one... but I think it's more that slowly the cow just doesn't produce enough for the calf to depend on, and he becomes more and more dependent on his grazing and water... and they just kind of slowly "drift apart" in dependency. It probably would also depend on hormones somewhat I suppose... if we didn't castrate that calf when young at least... this is just a guess on my part though. I don't castrate till they're almost a year old... want to see how they develop, to determine if there's one out there that I want to keep for a herd bull. As he becomes more "bullish", his interests change... and he "grows up". The heifers do the same, I would expect.

I'm assuming you're separating the heifer calves and the bull calves somehow. Frisky teenagers and all.

 

[crossbreed]

We are a small sample size with only 20 cows. Calve in Feb/march. Wean in oct/nov. usually have winter grazing so we keep through spring and sell. Around 850. Winter grazing froze out so we ended up haying starting end of November and sold this week. Calves on hay just don't grow like you wanted. Disappointed for sure but if you told me 3 years ago I'd get $3.70 for 650lb calves I would have been ecstatic

 

[simme]

We seem to have got in a mode of auguring about most everything with an expectation of precision and that there is only one correct answer.

There is no rule or correct answer on when to wean calves. Drought and poor forage - wean calves earlier. 2 year olds needing to add condition prior to next calving - wean calves earlier. Plenty of grass, good body condition, good weather - let them nurse a little longer. Or not if you want to get them weaned or shipped out for some reason. Maybe the market is declining or maybe is rising. Might affect when you want to wean. Weaning at 2 months is gonna be too early. Weaning at 10 months is gonna be too late. Plenty of time in between to figure out what works best for your situation.

 

[farmerjan]

The 205 day weaning was originally for the purpose of comparing calves growth while on a cow... it was a way to measure the growth of a calf and compare different bulls and the growth of their offspring... and then for these calves that were carried through to yearlings, and to see the amount they gained to that point. It allows all the bull studs to use a UNIFORM amount of time as a "measuring stick"... so that the calves are all compared equally. There are also many times a calf's weight will be listed as "adjusted 205 weaning weight".... meaning the calf was weaned earlier or later and with different formula's, the actual weaning weight is adjusted to that standard 205 weight.
Also... 205 days is close to 7 months... So if you take the cow's cycle into consideration... say on day 1 she calves... she has 60-90 days of her time to put in the MOST of her milk for the early and probably the most crucial time for the calf to nurse and start to really grow... then she will cycle and come in heat and get bred by the bull... then the calf is weaned off and she has about another 2-3 months of a dry period for the fetus to gain the most of it's growth/size and her body to rest so that she produces good strong colostrum for the best benefit to the new calf... she gets a 3 month time frame of not being pregnant... more or less; and about 2-3 months of not actually nursing a calf also. There is next to no time that she is not actually having demands made on her body.... and no, her dry period is not as demanding in some ways, but her body has to be in the right shape to adequately feed the calf inside that is developing.

So the 205 day weaning is more a time frame for comparison than a set in stone time. We wean between 6-9 months... depending on the grass situation... and what the markets are doing... The markets are as equal a determination as anything... and if it is real dry we sometimes wean a little early... and often if it is real dry the cows milk has fallen off some anyway.... but prefer to feed the cows a little more hay and get the calves eating creep feed and more hay before weaning them off.

My longhorn weans her own calf off at about 7-9 months... the calf is eating real good and she just seems to stop making milk. Since she never gets preg checked, I know when the bull went in, and when he came out, and she should calve in that 60 day window.... and I notice that her calf is usually weaned off a month or 2 before she might be due. Her steer calves are more "escape artists" and will go over/through fences if not real stout... so her steer calves get penned and put right on the truck to get sold...
Funny thing is, her heifers are easy to wean and get moved with the rest of the weaned heifers and seem to be just fine... but her steers are always trying to go over a fence or a gate or push their way out of somewhere...

 

[RDFF]

Boys are always more trouble!

 

[farmerjan]

Boys are always more trouble!

Except, that the steers off the rest of the beef cows are often more friendly than the heifers... we lament that a couple of really really nice heifers we had were total nut cases in the barn... and after a month had still not gotten their act together and finally we got P. O. and put them on the trailer for town one day... and there are a couple steers in there that will stand there, wait for you to pour in the grain on top of the silage, and then if you stand around, will come over to you to see if you have "anything for them"... wanting to be scratched...
So it is sorta karma that at least my longhorn produced females are willing to want to stay around by being good dispositioned... and the boys are ones I am glad to ship... because then I get so mad that a real nice heifer off a favorite angus x cow is a total idiot and I am glad to ship her.... then am sad since I only have one heifer out of that favorite cow to keep since the rest have been jerks....

 

[ClinchValley86]

Yep there is but there is also a cost of grass that is over used!
Erosion , increased frequency of needing replanted. Invasion of unwanted plants ect.
View attachment 53701

No offense intended here, but that graphic is outdated and incorrect. Everything I graze I aim for 90% utilization. New research shows that is in-part how longterm soil organic matter is attained... combined with proper rest periods.

When kept vegetative, grazing all the way down exposes soil to sunlight and brings a flush of seedlings (diversity) while allowing for an increased plant population per square foot.

The graphic you used does have merit, but the understanding of soil biology has progressed beyond it. It's just like cutting hay... regrowth commences in 72 to 96 hours time.

OVERGRAZING is the act of grazing something before it has recovered and had the chance to replenish energy reserves. It has nothing to do with the severity of grazing. It's a function of time. I try to be off and onto fresh ground within 72 hours so nothing gets overgrazed.

 

[Rmc]

No offense intended here, but that graphic is outdated and incorrect. Everything I graze I aim for 90% utilization. New research shows that is in-part how longterm soil organic matter is attained... combined with proper rest periods.

When kept vegetative, grazing all the way down exposes soil to sunlight and brings a flush of seedlings (diversity) while allowing for an increased plant population per square foot.

The graphic you used does have merit, but the understanding of soil biology has progressed beyond it. It's just like cutting hay... regrowth commences in 72 to 96 hours time.

OVERGRAZING is the act of grazing something before it has recovered and had thr chance to restock energy reserves found in the roots. It has nothing to do with the severity of grazing. It's a function of time.

We will have to agree to disagree.
Recently sat in a lecture from one of the top range scientists in the intermountain west and he used a very similar graphic.
Over grazing in area like Tennessee that receives 50 plus inches of moisture a year has a very different criteria as what can be consumed then an area like the intermountain west that averages less than 10 inches moisture per year !

Look at around the 10.5 -11 minute mark.

 

[ClinchValley86]

We will have to agree to disagree.
Recently sat in a lecture from one of the top range scientists in the intermountain west and he used a very similar graphic.
Over grazing in area like Tennessee that receives 50 plus inches of moisture a year has a very different criteria as what can be consumed then an area like the intermountain west that averages less than 10 inches moisture per year !

Look at around the 10.5 -11 minute mark.

The same would apply in the desert IMO. It's how much of that precip you hold and can utilize, right? I'd say the majority of ours runs right off because it comes when we don't need it. It's pretty dang dry here usually from July til November or so, definitely the last 4 or 5 years.

I'll try to find some information to share as well. Just to look at. Soil is soil whether you're in Mexico, Idaho, Missouri, TN or Florida.

If a person is doing a pasture rotation type thing (week or two+ weeks between moves) ignore what I said. But getting to nitty gritty of it when doing it intensively at all, overgrazing has nothing to do with the severity of grazing. It's being grazed again before it's fully recovered, 1000%.

Again, if you're just rotating big pastures weekly or every couple weeks, by all means leave a good residual. Staying on any ground beyond 4 days will result in some overgrazing, even with 2 cows on 100 acres. They'll keep hitting what they like and what's vegetative... eventually depleting it's ability to produce.

What say you about the hay field and cutting analogy though? It's usually cut 1 to 3 inches resulting in 90%+ of the biomass removed and bounces back pretty quickly off the stored energy.

 

[gcreekrch]

I'm assuming you're separating the heifer calves and the bull calves somehow. Frisky teenagers and all.

I just bought 30 head from a 0 management operation. Ranging from 6 months to long yearlings. The older bulls had been banded but out of 15 heifers three little summer born were carrying calves. One only weighed 500 lbs. They all got shots.

 

[Rmc]

Soil is soil whether you're in Mexico, Idaho, Missouri, TN or Florida.

Soil isnt soil. Sandy loam is totally different then clay loam,
Totall different if 2ft of top soil vs 2inches, 50 inches of annual moisture vs less then 10 , 70 plus percent humidity vs under 30 percent ,
1000ft vs 6000ft. Above sea level.
Soil that is frozen 3-6 months a year vs soil that never freezes.