Sold Another Longhorn Bull for Cross-Breeding

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Running Arrow Bill

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Guess I'll start a riot with this post...lot's of love/hate mail...lol.

Anyway,

We just sold another one of our LH bulls (25 mo old) to an area Commercial Herd Breeder who was having problems with pulling too many calves and recently lost a brood cow at calving--their calves were getting too large at birth. And...this IS Angus, Brangus, Baldy, and Simmental country! He was a 1,200 pounder with 70% semen test.

The livestock industry moves in interesting ways...
 
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Anonymous

Oldtimer":1h0an108 said:
70% semen test- The last 14 month old angus bull I had tested at 95%. Must be the heat down there!!! :)

LOL! Could be! We've another bull that was 90+%. One we sold has been servicing certain of our cows very well at 70%.
 
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Anonymous

Tc":14vvd3wm said:
how much did you get for him, if you dont mind saying?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tc

He was priced at $1500. Sold another one last year for $2000.

Both young bulls had BCS of about 5.5 to 6.0 and in the 1,200# range. These were bulls more suited for cross-breeding than high probability for large tip to tip horns. They were displaying between about 30 and 35" horn.
 

dun

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Sounds like fixing a dirty ashtray in your truck by selling the truck.

dun


Running Arrow Bill":2wjhomob said:
Guess I'll start a riot with this post...lot's of love/hate mail...lol.

Anyway,

We just sold another one of our LH bulls (25 mo old) to an area Commercial Herd Breeder who was having problems with pulling too many calves and recently lost a brood cow at calving--their calves were getting too large at birth. And...this IS Angus, Brangus, Baldy, and Simmental country! He was a 1,200 pounder with 70% semen test.

The livestock industry moves in interesting ways...
 

WILD BILL

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A QUESTION DIRECTED TO RUNNING ARROW BILL:

I'm not singleing you out but you seem to be the resident Longhorn authority. I found a small herd of Longhorn cows for sale neer me. They are from 3 to 8 yrs old, bred to a bull puchased from Dickenson Cattle Co in Ohio. The bulls name is Shadow (supposed to be expencive and high powered). The owner wants $700 a round. What do you think ? I am not a Longhorn breeder. I am thinking about starting a small herd to produce roping cattle for my own use and contracting to rodeos. We could rope the calves the 1st year, team rope the next 2 yrs, bulldog the 4th year and breed the heifers after that. Does that sound like a plan or would they get to big between the second and third year.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, WILD BILL
 

Frankie

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Running Arrow Bill":ww5jtz8t said:
Guess I'll start a riot with this post...lot's of love/hate mail...lol.

Anyway,

We just sold another one of our LH bulls (25 mo old) to an area Commercial Herd Breeder who was having problems with pulling too many calves and recently lost a brood cow at calving--their calves were getting too large at birth. And...this IS Angus, Brangus, Baldy, and Simmental country! He was a 1,200 pounder with 70% semen test.

The livestock industry moves in interesting ways...

Wow, 1200 lbs as a two year old. That's a shame. We have three Angus bulls that we're getting ready to sell. All three of them adjusted to over 1200 lbs as yearlings. One of them was over 1300 lbs. You say you had him "priced at $1500." You didn't say (and it's no one's business) what you actually sold him for.
 
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Running Arrow Bill

Running Arrow Bill

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WILD BILL":3p0zzje7 said:
A QUESTION DIRECTED TO RUNNING ARROW BILL:

I'm not singleing you out but you seem to be the resident Longhorn authority. I found a small herd of Longhorn cows for sale neer me. They are from 3 to 8 yrs old, bred to a bull puchased from Dickenson Cattle Co in Ohio. The bulls name is Shadow (supposed to be expencive and high powered). The owner wants $700 a round. What do you think ? I am not a Longhorn breeder. I am thinking about starting a small herd to produce roping cattle for my own use and contracting to rodeos. We could rope the calves the 1st year, team rope the next 2 yrs, bulldog the 4th year and breed the heifers after that. Does that sound like a plan or would they get to big between the second and third year.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, WILD BILL

Three to 8 YO cows are considered "Young" Longhorns--plenty of life left in them. DCCI is one of the top breeders/ranches in USA. We've bought from them too. "Shadow"(?)...if is bull I'm thinking of, he is black and a quality bull. What do you mean by "$700 a round?"--Do you mean $700 a head? The thought of roping, bulldogging after about 8 to 12 mos old is not realistic. By 205 days you would probably have a 450 to 650 lb calf. By One year old--600 to 800#. By 2 years old a 900 to 1200# animal. A Longhorn that has any potential for horn growth will have a minimum of a 24" horn tip-to-tip by 12 months of age (a little too long for the roping game).

If the sire and dam are quality and produce quality calves, don't stress the calves out by roping or bulldogging them. Heifers ready to breed by 13-14 mos. old. If you want to do the roping thing, use a cheaper Longhorn--perhaps even a Corriente.
 
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Anonymous

Congratulations to you Frankie.


Now some of the Angus people and longhorn haters may go crazy over this but: Consider the POSSIBILITY that Bill's customer just wants to breed his heifers or small cows with the longhorn bull because he wants to get as close to 100% certainty of no delivery problems as he can. And he's obviously not using AI, so use of one of the proven very low birth weight Angus bulls that carries a very high probability percentage is out of the equation. Yeah sure, if he just happens to pick the right young Angus bull for natural service he can get low birth weights. But the young Angus bulls available to him that have real low birth weight EPDs represent a lot more of a crap shoot as to the actual birth weight of their calves than the longhorn does. Those low EPDs are based only on pedigree and have a very low probability or confidence percentage. If the guy wants simplicity and almost virtual certainty of calving ease he goes with the longhorn bull for heifers and maybe even some cows and he makes a conscious decision to get less money per head for the resulting calves, but they'll probably all be alive. That decision is not necessarily the best, or worst, decision but it is one that is made a lot more often than many would imagine. A lot of people are willing to sacrifice some calf sale proceeds with their heifer's first calf crop and that doesn't make them idiots or joke farmers. Personally I think its foolish to be so obsessed with low birth weights that you make so many other factors a lower priority. But each person has to examine his or her program, and what motivates them to be in the cattle business, and decide how to rank all the management issues and then spend their hard earned money accordingly
 

Campground Cattle

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All breeds bring something to the table. Thank the good Lord there is not just one breed, i don't know what my neighbor and I could argue over. It's like the little boy that kissed the calf in the butt everyone to their own taste
 
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Anonymous

Thanks for the reply. What did you think of the price? I if I would buy them I would breed them to a Corriente bull. The F1's stay small enough to rope for 2 yrs.
 
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Anonymous

Granted I am not the buyer, but that seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face. One can argue that it is better to have a live calf that a dead one and they are right. But you cannot convince me that you cannot find a meat breed bull that will not put out small calves at birth. Thus saving you the docking you will recieve at the markets.
 

Jake

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I can breed to an angus or similiar breed and if I lose a few calves even if it's not birthing problems I can more than make up for the money I'd lose in docked prices come sale time.
 

dun

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I think I would be tempted to never calf heifers if I had problems with that many pulls/deaths. It makes me curious if these cows/heifers have the genetics to calve easily. If I alwasy got whopper calves no matter what bulls I used I would sure look at my managment and heifer selection process'.
Where are the bulls being bought? Salesbarn, reputable breeder, or from the guy just down the road?

dun



JPO":v0vrghuz said:
Granted I am not the buyer, but that seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face. One can argue that it is better to have a live calf that a dead one and they are right. But you cannot convince me that you cannot find a meat breed bull that will not put out small calves at birth. Thus saving you the docking you will recieve at the markets.
 

Frankie

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Anonymous":2ol17p4t said:
Congratulations to you Frankie.


Now some of the Angus people and longhorn haters may go crazy over this but: Consider the POSSIBILITY that Bill's customer just wants to breed his heifers or small cows with the longhorn bull because he wants to get as close to 100% certainty of no delivery problems as he can. And he's obviously not using AI, so use of one of the proven very low birth weight Angus bulls that carries a very high probability percentage is out of the equation. Yeah sure, if he just happens to pick the right young Angus bull for natural service he can get low birth weights. But the young Angus bulls available to him that have real low birth weight EPDs represent a lot more of a crap shoot as to the actual birth weight of their calves than the longhorn does. Those low EPDs are based only on pedigree and have a very low probability or confidence percentage. If the guy wants simplicity and almost virtual certainty of calving ease he goes with the longhorn bull for heifers and maybe even some cows and he makes a conscious decision to get less money per head for the resulting calves, but they'll probably all be alive. That decision is not necessarily the best, or worst, decision but it is one that is made a lot more often than many would imagine. A lot of people are willing to sacrifice some calf sale proceeds with their heifer's first calf crop and that doesn't make them idiots or joke farmers. Personally I think its foolish to be so obsessed with low birth weights that you make so many other factors a lower priority. But each person has to examine his or her program, and what motivates them to be in the cattle business, and decide how to rank all the management issues and then spend their hard earned money accordingly

1. I did not in any way suggest that this commercial rancher shouldn’t be buying a Longhorn bull. If he wants to use one on his cow herd, more power to him. I merely expressed my feelings about the growth (or lack of it) in this Longhorn bull. I can’t make any money selling two year old bulls for $1500 and doubt Bill can either. I would wonder, too, why this animal was still a bull? As I understand the horn business, steers and cows have the longest horns.
2. Bill said nothing about heifers or small cows. He said this rancher lost at least a brood COW (wonder what other kind of cows he has?) because of large calves.
3. You are just wrong about EPDs not being reliable for BW, at least in the Angus breed. Every Angus registration certificate shows the BW EPD of an animal’s sire and dam. If a buyer sees that the dam’s BW EPD is 5 and the sire’s is –5, he shouldn’t buy that bull as a heifer bull, even though his BW EPD will be 0. On the other hand if the sire’s BW EPD is 1 and the dam’s is 2, the animal will have a BW EPD of 1.5 and I would EXPECT him to be a satisfactory heifer bull. Because my cattle are all several generations of AI, the accuracy on my yearling bulls is generally in the .35 range and that’s pretty good. One can also go to the http://www.angus.org website, enter a registration number, and track the BW EPDs on a bull for several generations. The information is available on a lot of Angus bulls. I wouldn’t claim it’s available on all of them. But ranchers who are willing to pay $2-5,000 for a bull will take time to do their homework.
4. Single trait selection is not good, no matter if you’re selecting for BW, WW or carcass.
5. You really should log in before you bash someone for something they didn’t even say.
 
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Anonymous

I would have to agree, If you use a bull and do your homework by looking at actual performance records and EPDs it does not matter what breed you use you can find a bull that will have low birth weight calves, a bull that you are afraid to use on your heifers should not be used on your cows, because you will be calving those out in a couple of years
 
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