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Sold 20 head

plumber_greg

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Got a check from the feedyard today. They are selling my calves and this is only the third year I have owned them all the way. Made some changes, with their advice, so now I'm ready to fine tune this thing. Sent them when they averaged exactly 600lbs. and they have been there 191 days. The 20 they sold weighed 1265 live wt. and dressed at 826. Had one y1(4.00 premium), 8 y2(2.00 premium), 6 select( 2.50 cwt. discount), and one y4(15.00 discount). Don't know about the rest, gonna' get cutouts later. Ended up with $135.28 ctw. for the carcass weight. It looks like 38 head will pay the feed bill on the pen of 98. I'm am pretty stupid on this, so be easy. ha ha. Tell me what you think, and any advice anyone has on culling would be nice. By the way, these are Angus, Simmi, and some South Devon crosses. I really am clueless on how to proceed next. Thanks gs
 

xbred

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so your check was for approx. $1,117.00 per head? what was your cost to get them to that weight? In 190 days you grossed an additional $500.00? or did it cost more than 500 per head to get them to 1200 lbs? just asking..i've wanted to do this for some time now...
 

edrsimms

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plumber_greg":1l99tsda said:
Got a check from the feedyard today. They are selling my calves and this is only the third year I have owned them all the way. Made some changes, with their advice, so now I'm ready to fine tune this thing. Sent them when they averaged exactly 600lbs. and they have been there 191 days. The 20 they sold weighed 1265 live wt. and dressed at 826. Had one y1(4.00 premium), 8 y2(2.00 premium), 6 select( 2.50 cwt. discount), and one y4(15.00 discount). Don't know about the rest, gonna' get cutouts later. Ended up with $135.28 ctw. for the carcass weight. It looks like 38 head will pay the feed bill on the pen of 98. I'm am pretty stupid on this, so be easy. ha ha. Tell me what you think, and any advice anyone has on culling would be nice. By the way, these are Angus, Simmi, and some South Devon crosses. I really am clueless on how to proceed next. Thanks gs

I am glad to see people that are retaining ownership of the cattle all the way to the rail--as this is the only way to see the evil of our ways... After you know what your favorite breed will Grade on the rail, you will have a better idea of what not to do and how to improve on what you are doing.
1. I dont like the selling them at 600 lbs and straight to the feedyard-- to me that is costing you too much money.

2. Why not keep them until the 800 lb mark then retain ownership of your calves. This will cut feeding time in half.

3. Since I dont know about the south devon I will not be commenting on them.

4. Problem with Angus is they have a great tendency to cost you money in the feedyard because they usually end up discounted on YG

5. Problem with Simmental is the frame and their propensity for higher lean. I would hope these are from PB bulls and not FB bulls.

So many people just raise whatever they like and dont care about the end product and I appreciate someone that wants to understand the full deal > all the way to the rail.

What I would do for building a cow herd for retaining owndership for my feeders is to concentrate my efforts on a few simple ideas. Angus have always produced low lean or YG 3+ calves and the reason there are premiums associated with Angus steers many times is one reason--- they are predictable-- and it is NOT that they are high in the YG category. Think about that.
Do I think a base Angus cow herd is a good thing ---YES. What I would do to produce the kind of calves we want is to maintain a moderate sized cow herd (frame score 5.5 to 6 max) and to use Purebred Simmental bulls. Most good simangus cattle are grading 70% choice YG2< this makes money.

PB Simmi bulls -- what to look for.....
Moderate frame scores -- 6 max
WDA 2.47 minimum (weight per day of age) at weaning.
WW Epd's in the 40+ category
YW Epd's in the 70+ category
Marbling around .33
BF of -0.01
REA above 0.20
CWT above 7.0
Shear -0.20 or better
bulls like this are few, but they are out there if you look.
These kind of Bulls are great on Angus cows because they help bring the YG down without greatly affecting the Quality Grade. There is no reason a simangus calf cannot grade YG 2 Medium Choice every time. The best way to predict what your calves will do is to keep up with your data -- if you can show the numbers--- you can demand premiums for your calves-- and they will pay them because you have done the work and your calves are now----- predictable.

I have over 10 years of data on every cross calf known to man I have sent thru the feedyard or fed. What works best. I know a guy that buys 17 % of the cattle being fed in the US-- he wants simangus--- because they are more and more and more becoming
PREDICTABLE BUT WITH CHOICE YG2 STAMPED ON THEIR CARCASSES.

LET ME SHARE THIS: these are the facts....................... One very important thing to remember is that the genetis for carcass value comes from the Sire's side more so than the Dam (pretty broad statement, but ok for these purposes)

Very high lean, low marbling, low milk, late puberty
These sires are pushing you into the Select category YG 1, but framey, which will take longer to finish I refuse to buy any of these crosses on the frame issues and Select grades they will spit out time and time again.
Charolais -- very high growth
Chianina -- very high growth
Limousin -- moderate growth

High lean, moderate marbling, high milk, moderate puberty
These sires are pushing you toward the Choice category YG2 Full Bloods will also be framey and take longer to finish in Simmental --- Use purebred Bulls. Seen some framey maines too
Simmental -- very high growth
Maine Anjou -- very high growth
Gelbvieh -- very high growth
Brown Swiss -- high growth

Moderate lean, moderate marbling, high milk, early puberty
No data on these guys
South Devon -- moderate growth
Tarentaise -- moderate growth
Pinzgauer -- moderate growth

Moderate lean, low marbling, low milk, very late puberty, heat tolerant
Ok for Africa, add Nelore to this category. I used to feed Santa Gertrudis-- good gains but they got me on Quality grades.
Brahman -- high growth
Sahiwal -- low growth

Low lean, high marbling, moderate milk, moderate puberty
These sires are pushing you toward high choice but with a discount for YG's 3-4 and slower growth on a few of these breeds. Has no time for low growth cattle.
Angus -- moderate growth
Hereford -- moderate growth
Red Poll -- low growth
Devon -- low growth

Very high milk, high marbling, early puberty
Actually a great piece of beef is the Jersey Angus cross, if you have the time to wait for them to grow-- I dont
Holstein -- moderate lean, high growth
Jersey -- low lean, low growth
 

plumber_greg

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Xbred, yes my gross per calf was 1100. My goal right now is to get the price of my 600lbs calves at finished weight. Last year they averaged 550, figured them at 1.20 and got just less than that for them in the end. My feeder was willing to take smaller amounts at first to let me get my feet wet. I encourage anyone buying good bulls and taking care of things to do this. The hardest part was skipping the income in the fall to get started the first time. Now I'm commited cuz' I can't afford to sell two bunches in one year for tax purposes. edrsimms, thanks for the info, just read through it this morn, and haven't absorbed it all. I like your points on the different breeds. I always use as good a bull as I can afford, usually $2500-3000. My cost of gain is too much to keep them to 800lbs., even though I like feeding them. My job requires me to do my hobbies fast and efficently. Many times someone like me just goes forth blindly until we get it right. May PM you when I study your comments and ask for advice. Thanks gs
 

dun

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Did you buy unto the whole put and get (I think that's what they are) deal for cost/price protection? Year before last we made more on that then we did on the calves when they went to slaughter. I don;t undersatand the whole deal I just leave it to the feedlot to take care of that end.
 

KNERSIE

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If you need to feed 600lb calves for 191 days you need to rethink your breeding program. I suggest focussing hard on adding marbling and breed a shorter earlier maturing type. The Simmental and South Devon are both later maturing breeds and I think either can be replaced with another British breed, but personally I would replace the South Devon for the sake of the little extra heterosis from a continental breed.

1. I dont like the selling them at 600 lbs and straight to the feedyard-- to me that is costing you too much money.

2. Why not keep them until the 800 lb mark then retain ownership of your calves. This will cut feeding time in half.

The reason calves are sent in around 600 lbs is because the FCR is at its best from 8-11 months, after that the longbone growth slows down and the growth plates starts closing with a negative effect on FCR.
 

novaman

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KNERSIE":26y8r6v6 said:
If you need to feed 600lb calves for 191 days you need to rethink your breeding program.
How long should it take? I am no expert by any means but I'm guessing the 600 pounds is achieved around 205 days of age. Adding the 191 days for feeding would put them at 396 days or about 13 months. That doesn't seem to be so out of line to me.
 

mnmtranching

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Isn't that a little better then 3 1/2 pounds a day gain? Not setting records, but for pen average. I think your cattle did good. And to finish at 1265 at 13 months I'd say that is good. :nod:
 

plumber_greg

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The calves I took were born Feb. 1 to the first half of April, I had a mature bull go bad that was with 32 head and replaced him after the third heat started, which scattered them somewhat. So I thought the age and ADG were within my goals. The whole pen is not yet sold, but ready or nearly ready. I also didn't understand the put and get deal Dun is talking about, didn't know I had another option on that. What is it? I'll talk to the feedyard about it also. The South Devon came from the cows, and I am phasing it out and concentrating on getting closer to SimAngus to mostly angus mommas, but can't keep enough heifers to do real fast. thanks gs
 

plumber_greg

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Sorry, got my years mixed up. These calves were born from Feb. 1 to about Mar. 20. This years calves are the ones that are scattered. The ones I fed were a pretty consistent bunch. gs
 

edrsimms

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plumber_greg":2nkab50f said:
edrsimms, thanks for the info, just read through it this morn, and haven't absorbed it all. I like your points on the different breeds. I always use as good a bull as I can afford, usually $2500-3000. My cost of gain is too much to keep them to 800lbs., even though I like feeding them. My job requires me to do my hobbies fast and efficently. Many times someone like me just goes forth blindly until we get it right. May PM you when I study your comments and ask for advice. Thanks gs

You are very welcome for the info. All I am saying is that I understand that the FCR is higher between 7 and 12-13 months of age, but there is more to finishing cattle than getting them to a pre-deternined weight. They need the "MATURITY" to grade where we want them to and if you could keep them until they reach 800 lbs then send them to the feedyard their time on feed would greatly decrease (100 days max) which will save you money in the long run and they will have the maturity they need to grade med choice YG2. if I knew more about your calving season and where you were I could better understand what you are working with.
 

plumber_greg

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Let me see if I understand you corrrectly. Are you saying that generally a 18 month old calf would grade better than a 15 month old one? My age and source verification says my calves are all born on Feb. 1. That's 16 months now. To get the 15.00 premium for carcasses less than 18 months old, wouldn't that cut it kinda of close, if I fed for say,for 2.5 lbs gain? If I had the facilities and feed for maximun gain, why use the feedlot? I ask respectfully, wanting your input. gs
 

Jalopy

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Plumber__Greg- I think Dun is talking about the price protection of puts and calls. By using this you can lock in the original value of the calves going to the feedyard so that you will not be "open" if the cattle market dumps while the calves are being fed. You can even be more aggressive and work for price protection for the finished cattle for the same reason.By using these options you still maintain ownership and then when you deliver the cattle to the rail you offset the options and realize any gain of lack there of against your actual sales receipts. I realize this may not be the info you originally asked for but sometimes (actually most times) if you cover the financial aspects of the cattle business it allows you time to fine tune the husbandry side. Each side of the feeding equation has equal impact on your long term ability to stay in the cattle business. I think you are headed in the correct way and good luck to you. JLP
 

dcara

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Some quick sanity checks

826lbs dressed from 1265 live = 65.3% is real good
1265-600=665lbs in 191 days = 3.48lbs ADG is good.
If it took 38 animals to pay the feed bill for a pen of 98 then $135.28cwt * 826lbs*38 = $42461 feed bill, and 665lb gain on each of 98 animals (65170 total lbs) then $42461/65170 = $0.65/lb COG is real real good (assuming yardage was included).

You got (135.28*8.26)=$1117 per carcuss. You payed $0.65/lb*665lbs=$432. So your profit= 1117-432 = $685 profit. So now there are 2 questions.

1) How much more is this than you would have got by selling your calf at 600lbs at the barn minus commissions and yardage.
2) What was the annualized return

I'm thinking you got about $120 more on number one. For number two I think you can roughly assume that you made that extra $120 by investing about $800 (i.e. about $600 for the calf and about half the feed bill/calf) for 191 days. So (120/800)/(191/365)=29% = pretty darn good.
 

plumber_greg

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The whole pen is gone now, and I don't have the figures in front of me, but I am remembering that we put a value of six hundred dollars a head on the calves goin' in and the final sheet said eighty six dollars was the goal and they made fifty three. One of them got sick and cost over five hundred to keep alive, so he hurt things. I think my figures are right, and I am definitly going to keep it up. 0.65 seems a little low for the cost of gain, I think it was more in the upper seventies, not sure. They did dress out at 64 percent. Thanks gs
 

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