so confused!!!

[hog_n_dos]

I am still learning about the whole raising cattle thing. I am trying to figure out what to feed my cows for the winter and I have been told and read so many diffrent things! I am looking for just basic info. for someone who knows nothing. (me) I just want to keep my cow and calf healthy. please help, a little advise
:help:

cow - 7 year old pulled herferd (good mama cow) got for breeder
calf 8 mo. still nursing but eating and drinking alot on her own

still have a little dry tall field grass and pasture grass is coming back in green but not any to eat at the moment just a nibble here and there

 

[rockridgecattle]

from one still learning to one still learning:
Vaccinations, talk to a vet
wean now would be good not so healthy on the mother if she is re breed. She needs at least three months to regain BSC, dry up and start creating antibodies for her new calf in her colostrum. Other wise the new calf will suffer.
Free choice mineral and salt to both the calf and cow.
Good nutrition for the calf and cow, the cow needs to get ready to calve again and need the protien to get "the game plan" going.
If she got rebred when she "should" have the pregnancy should be close to 5 1/2 months now.

 

[dun]

Just the basics: Wean the calf, good quilty hay, minerals and water for the cow. A little grain for the calf for a couple of weeks (6-8) then back with the cow and the same diet she's getting

 

[Keren]

Here are a few things I would think about doing:

1. Wean the calf. Give it good feed (eg. calf pellets 18% protein) and hay for 4 to 6 weeks. Then can be put back with the cow but watch that she doesnt try to start sucking again.

2. Get the vet to preg test your cow if you dont know whether she is bred, and give you a rough due date so you are prepared.

3. Make sure vaccinations and wormings are up to date for both of them. Maybe give a mineral supplement as well.

4. The cow should not need any grain/pellets over winter, just good hay, unless she is really thin.

I like to use good quality oaten hay, alternating with good lucerne. But I will also use pasture hay (but it varies greatly depending on whats in it), wheaten hay and canola hay. I tend to give hay ad lib and restrict grain to the amount eaten within 8 to 10 minutes.

If you are just beginning it will be easier for you to buy a good commercially prepared calf meal or pellet, and perhaps buy a maintenance feed for the cow as well (12 - 14% protein) in case she needs it.

Have lots of contact with them so that you know what is normal and out of character for them. Watch your cow and calf closely for any signs of sickness, such as scours, thick white snot, lethargy, not eating.

Try looking up on the internet pictures of body condition score of BCS. Using this you can tell what condition your cow is in and whether you need to increase or decrease her feed. Maybe someone else can tell you the ideal BCS for a cow to be in at weaning, joining and calving, because I'm pretty sure the American and Australian BCS are different and I dont want to confuse you.

Good luck, hope this helps and enjoy your cow and calf.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

What do your neighbors feed? Ask some (especially the ones that have good looking cattle)

 

[Hitch]

There is always something to learn so don't worry too much. Be a good listener and choose your 'advisors' with care - just like anything else in life. My opinions regarding a calf: Weaning around age 2 months may be a generally good target date if the calf is thriving. Personally, I like to introduce the calf (while it contiues to nurse) to good pasture or hay at about two weeks or age - if the calf seems healthy, stable, and growing well. Remember, free access to fresh water daily is critical too. I am a small scale operator and maybe the 'real' cattlemen would not agree with my way of doin' things. Ask folks that clearly are succeeding, and have good looking cattle, for opinions. At weaning time, I like to see the calf already eating a bit of grass/hay and a couple of cups of grain daily. Your local feed store can help you pick the right grain/feed (a growing ration). I personally don't buy feed with any antibiotics or hormones already mixed in. As the calf grows, talk to the feed store, and others, about what/when changes to the feed mixture should take place. Make any changes in feed gradual. When good pasture is available you may consider no grain - I just like to have the cows and calves 'trained' to come to the barn each day for a small grain treat (if the budget can handle the cost of feed). It's easy to spot any worrisome changes early and gives you and the cattle a chance to interact. Regarding hay: I think a mix of good grass and legumes is good for beef. Hopefully, the legumes didn't go to seed before the hay was put up. My opinion is pure clover or alfalfa hay is a bit rich for beef cows (too high in protein and too low in carbs) and beef cattle may not be able to generate all the body heat they need for winter stress. It would be a pretty good choice for a dairy cow that's milking though (better milk production). A general rule of thumb - lots of valid reasons to vary though - is a typical 1,000 - 1,200 lb. beef cow will munch through a ton to ton-and-a half of hay over a 5 -6 month winter feeding period. Again, talk to successful neighbors and don't forget to be on good terms with your county extension agent. Make sure plenty of fresh water is available daily. Make sure the cows have protection from wind and that they can stay dry. A covered three sided shelter may be all you need; probably a good idea if the open side faces south. Good luck and keep learning.

 

[backhoeboogie]

still have a little dry tall field grass and pasture grass is coming back in green but not any to eat at the moment just a nibble here and there

Dead grass does not have much nutritional value. That is why hay is made. With hay, the grass is cut while it is thriving, dried, and baled. A great deal of the nutrition is captured, especially if the hay it cut at an optimum time. With dead grass, (i.e. your dry tall field grass) most nutrients have returned to the root system. Hence, you cow isn't getting much out of it. Tough to wean the calf if the calf is not getting good grazing. She's going to prefer momma and momma aint getting much either.

The gree grass that is coming back will be healthy for them. It is probably best if you mow the tall dry stuff.

 

[novatech]

Dead grass does not have much nutritional value.

Stockpiled forage has been used for many years in different parts of the world. The quality or nutritional value is dependent on severeal factors.
The growth stage it was in when it went into dormancy.
The type of grass.
The amount of rain before being grazed.
The amount of time before being grazed.
Last year I did not feed any hay until January and used very little protein supplement. With all the rain this year it should be even better.
Here is one of many articles writen on the subject.
http://www.farmtalknewspaper.com/editor ... 62106.html

 

[backhoeboogie]

Here is one of many articles writen on the subject.
http://www.farmtalknewspaper.com/editor ... 62106.html

Nova, The link discusses Bermuda and not field grasses. Nevertheless, I would have lost a bet on this - amazingly high in protein:

"In November, the range of protein content of the standing forage was 13.1 percent to 15.2 percent crude protein," Lalman said. "The protein held up in December and ranged from 12.5 percent to 14.7 percent crude protein. In January, the range was 10.9 percent to 11.6 percent crude protein."

 

[Hippie Rancher]

"Dead grass does not have much nutritional value."

Now there is a blanket statement that has little value!

Nutritional value of forage, dead or alive is dependent on many factors. Dormant native grass in a dry environment can be better than flush green growth in the tropics.

Rainfall, species, plant condition, age, and especially environment and climate all make a big difference.

 

[Susie David]

Wean that calf....now. The pair won'tr like it but that calf is taking alot more than you think out of the cow.
There is plenty of good feed in your area, expensive but its there. Good alfalfa isn't going to break you feeding two head but expect to pay upwards of $200/ton...and the price is on the rise.
Don't know the weights on the animals but a rough guess would be that the cow needs about 25# and the calf around 15 to 20 pounds a day of good hay.
Alot of suppliments available but remember that they need minerals with Selinium...not a lick block.
Just my two bits worth....asked for or not...DMc

 

[backhoeboogie]

"Dead grass does not have much nutritional value."

Now there is a blanket statement that has little value!

Nutritional value of forage, dead or alive is dependent on many factors. Dormant native grass in a dry environment can be better than flush green growth in the tropics.

I agree with the environment thing. Much more strength in my grass here versus my land in East Texas.

But on the dead grass thing, I'd much rather my cows get hay cut at the right time versus dead forage, from the same pasture - in winter months.

 

[Driven]

Nutritional value of forage, dead or alive is dependent on many factors. Dormant native grass in a dry environment can be better than flush green growth in the tropics.

Any grass in Arizona is good. Can you find any there?

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Any grass in Arizona is good. Can you find any there?

Fair amounts of natives on my "mountain" pastures (4500 to 5500 feet) and plenty of lehman's mixed with some natives in lower country. Of course the average around here is 80 acres/cow so "lots" of grass sure is relative! :lol:

Trade off, I don't have to feed in the winter

 

[novatech]

"Dead grass does not have much nutritional value."

Now there is a blanket statement that has little value!

Nutritional value of forage, dead or alive is dependent on many factors. Dormant native grass in a dry environment can be better than flush green growth in the tropics.

I agree with the environment thing. Much more strength in my grass here versus my land in East Texas.

But on the dead grass thing, I'd much rather my cows get hay cut at the right time versus dead forage, from the same pasture - in winter months.

There are some that leave that last cutting of hay for the cattle to graze. It may loose very few nutrients during the first few months and is far cheaper to graze than to bail. As an added benefit 80% of what they eat goes back into the hay field in the form of manure, instead of moveing it out into other fields.
It is fairly easy to find out the nutritional value of stockpiled forage. By watching the condition of the cattle and fecal matter when it hits the ground. When that poop starts stacking up when it hits the ground it is time to supplement.