So ashamed. I forgot all about Earth Day.

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greybeard

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Earth First!!!
(We can pillage, exploit, and burn the rest of the planets later)

who-would-win-strange-walking-ape-the-whole-ecosystem-of-18264460.png

Man has dominion over..
 

cow pollinater

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The part that I find really interesting is that the people who are are revved up to save the ecosystem are the same people that attack agriculture here in the US. That gives a distinct advantage to countries with zero regulation that knock down rain forests, spray things that we don't even have access to, pollute waterways, etc. It seems that if they really cared they would support our system that protects those resources but then again if they stopped to think that long they might change their minds about lots of closely help values...
 

Bright Raven

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cow pollinater":z8yf4kxe said:
The part that I find really interesting is that the people who are are revved up to save the ecosystem are the same people that attack agriculture here in the US. That gives a distinct advantage to countries with zero regulation that knock down rain forests, spray things that we don't even have access to, pollute waterways, etc. It seems that if they really cared they would support our system that protects those resources but then again if they stopped to think that long they might change their minds about lots of closely help values...

Good observation. Are they organized - yes. Do they have a motivating message - yes. Are they strategic - not very often.
 

Bright Raven

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Protection of the environment is still popular in the United States. The movement is over 50 years old. It is interesting that Republicans were leaders in environmental protection 50 years ago. President Nixon and Republican support in the House and Senate spawned the US Environmental Protection Agency. It is the only major administrative branch that is not a cabinet office.

The political rhetoric between the two parties have stretched the gap between them over the environment - although protection of the environment is favored by the majority, more support comes from Democrats than Republicans today.

It is noteworthy that many hunting and fishing interest side with environmental cleanup. Especially in the Rocky mountain West. I observed a lot of hunting support for Superfund cleanup in the Clark Fork River in Montana. I presided over a meeting in Livingston, Montana one evening. The fly fishing outfitters were out in full force advocating a more rigorous cleanup remedy.

Same thing at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal near Denver. Wildlife interest were important in reestablising bison, pronghorn, etc. on the 6 square mile area where the DOD was required to cleanup sarin gas and mustard gas contaminates.
 

Jogeephus

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I agree the majority want a clean environment but I think where the division began is the conservative want logical rules and regulations where things are weighed on a benefit cost scale whereas the liberal left seems to not care what it costs the taxpayer. This, I think, is where the division lies and it has nothing to do with the conservatives not wanting a clean environment. A good example of this is what happened down the road from me at Moody AFB. They were needing a pipeline run to the other side of a runway and they began installing this when they ran into an abandoned gopher turtle hole. All work was stopped for three months while the environmental folks from several alphabet agencies scratched their heads trying to figure out what to do. A robot thing was run down in the whole and it was determined that the only thing that had used it in the past year was possibly a snake. But what if the turtle came home. Not right to have a homeless turtle is it? Their solution was to run a pipe underneath the ground to keep from disturbing this vacant turtle hole. The cost of this added $1.3 million to the bill.

I'm all for a clean environment but we don't have to be stupid about it either. Heck, we could have put the turtle up at the Ritz Carlton for the rest of its life if it ever decided to come home. Its stupid stuff like this that hurts their cause and what makes it worse the far left could care less what it costs.
 

ga.prime

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That's right, Jo. No common sense applied. Gopher hole abandonment is easily recognizable by anyone with an ounce of experience. Besides that, gophers can dig new tunnels practically overnight and they're quite acclimated to moving.
 

1wlimo

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Ok so any one with any commonsense should understand that the gopher hole was not worth very much cash.

However US agriculture is very inefficient in the use of resources in the main. Read about soils and soil degradation, or red about the yields achieved by gardeners in third world countries. They produce way more food per square foot that so called efficient US agriculture.

50% of US agricultural soil is severally degraded, and yes there is the use of zero-till, cover crops etc that try and mitigate the losses. The huge advances all require cheep fuel and do not look at resource use, or benefit the farmer.

Energy production is another area where the US does really badly. Having vast power-plants, coal, gas or solar a long way from the point of use is not clever. There are vast losses in the power lines, not to mention how venerable power lines are. local power production, especially solar panels on your house roof, and reduced energy consumption by building houses properly in the first place is more efficient, cheaper for the home owner in the long run, and makes you more independent.

The argument should not be about left or right politics, but what is best, especially what is best for my family in the long term. the current system is flawed and bad for the family, and the environment.
 

True Grit Farms

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Do the US of A a favor and stay in Alberta, we have enough hot air and bs here already. The fact is no one wants to come to the United States it's so bad here we can't keep them out. Immigration is the reason we don't have a looney left liberal running the country and giving it to the cowards. Alternative power isn't cost effective and I sure don't want to pay what Canadians pay for fuel. I always thought we were the most productive farming country in the world, and somehow we even manage without slaves, child labor and pay a minium wage to boot. Please don't let facts get in the way of a good lie.
 

Bright Raven

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True Grit Farms":1jvefirz said:
Do the US of A a favor and stay in Alberta, we have enough hot air and bs here already. The fact is no one wants to come to the United States it's so bad here we can't keep them out. Immigration is the reason we don't have a looney left liberal running the country and giving it to the cowards. Alternative power isn't cost effective and I sure don't want to pay what Canadians pay for fuel. I always thought we were the most productive farming country in the world, and somehow we even manage without slaves, child labor and pay a minium wage to boot. Please don't let facts get in the way of a good lie.

Dang Grit:

That got too personal.
 

Jogeephus

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1wlimo":1cf5mfrm said:
The argument should not be about left or right politics, but what is best, especially what is best for my family in the long term. the current system is flawed and bad for the family, and the environment.

I agree but I'll carry it one step further and say it should be what's best for the country. You mention energy, one thing you are glossing over is the far left has been making us tear down our hydroelectric plants because of "endangered" salamanders or some rare and useless minnow. Canada uses a lot of hydro power and you are right, we should do more but there is no way we can build more because of all the stupid environmental lawsuits. Can Trump fix it is about like asking if a doctor can make a twenty year chain smoker into a marathon runner in four years. The answer is obvious but at least he is willing to try.

I don't think your facts are right about farming. You can play with numbers all day and you can toss fiber such as cotton into the mix and throw the acreage all out of whack when you are calculating food production but I bet a farmer down the road from me grows more "food" on his farm than most of these countries you are comparing because his products go into a plant and are shipped all over the world.

But you are right. We do need to do what's right for our children and we need to use common sense and employ benefit cost analysis to things rather than do the typical knee jerk reactions our politicians typically do. To spend $5 million on figuring out the most environmentally friendly way to melt bags of ice in Louisiana after Katrina is just plain stupid and whether you are right or left every taxpayer should be outraged at this nonsense.
 

Bright Raven

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Jo stated:

...we need to use common sense and employ benefit cost analysis to things rather than do the typical knee jerk reactions our politicians typically do. To spend $5 million on figuring out the most environmentally friendly way to melt bags of ice in Louisiana after Katrina is just plain stupid and whether you are right or left every taxpayer should be outraged at this nonsense.

Not being facetious, but what is common sense to one person is a stupid act of incompetence to another. I have been involved in cases where the regulated party thought building a sedimentation pond was not an act of "common sense". Not everyone thinks a power plant is more important than a minnow. That is a fact Jack.

The world is never exactly what anyone wants it to be. We all live with that. One party wants to go North. The other party wants to go South. We all end up going east and west.

Cattle Today has a culture. I don't think I am unique in observing that. It is largely a Christian Conservative Culture. Yes, I have said that at least 5 times before this. Imagine if you will that the whole world is NOT a Christian Conservative Culture. Imagine that there are people who "sincerely" value a minnow or a rare orchid more than a power plant. To the culture of CT, they are "stupid idiots without common sense". So be it. Call them what ever strikes your fancy. The question is this: does your label for them change anything?
 
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greybeard

greybeard

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Nope, doesn't change anything, because no matter what someone calls them, whether nice or benice, you can't fix stupid.
 

Jogeephus

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Bright Raven":354qq0u8 said:
Jo stated:

...we need to use common sense and employ benefit cost analysis to things rather than do the typical knee jerk reactions our politicians typically do. To spend $5 million on figuring out the most environmentally friendly way to melt bags of ice in Louisiana after Katrina is just plain stupid and whether you are right or left every taxpayer should be outraged at this nonsense.

Not being facetious, but what is common sense to one person is a stupid act of incompetence to another. I have been involved in cases where the regulated party thought building a sedimentation pond was not an act of "common sense". Not everyone thinks a power plant is more important than a minnow. That is a fact Jack.

The world is never exactly what anyone wants it to be. We all live with that. One party wants to go North. The other party wants to go South. We all end up going east and west.

Cattle Today has a culture. I don't think I am unique in observing that. It is largely a Christian Conservative Culture. Yes, I have said that at least 5 times before this. Imagine if you will that the whole world is NOT a Christian Conservative Culture. Imagine that there are people who "sincerely" value a minnow or a rare orchid more than a power plant. To the culture of CT, they are "stupid idiots without common sense". So be it. Call them what ever strikes your fancy. The question is this: does your label for them change anything?

Ron, that doesn't even begin to make any sense. Enjoying your wine are you?
 
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greybeard

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Let the electricity go off for a few days and those ideologists will be beggin their neighbor to show them how to build a fire so they can roast that minnow, then chop him up over the salad they made out of the inner leaves of an otherwise spoiled head of lettuce, slap that orchid in between the pages of a dusty book they never intend to open again, and head on down to Lowes to stand in line like everyone else to buy one of those smoke belching, noisy as heck, petrol drinking generators and never feel a single pang of guilt about any of it.
 

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