Small Town Kid, Hereford bull

[Katpau]

My friend was planning to AI her heifers to the Hereford bull, Small Town Kid, next week, so she went to look at his current EPDs. Apparently it showed his registration as being pulled, and when she called Select Sires to ask about it, she was told he was found to be a carrier of some defect. Select Sires has agreed to replace the semen with another bull, but she only has a few days before they plan to AI.

Has anyone else heard anything about this?

 

[Son of Butch]

Nope.
But she should consider herself lucky for finding out before using him and not afterwards.

 

[Hpacres440p]

Too bad, nice looking bull

 

[ccr]

After a look on the hereford.org site, it appears he shows to be a carrier of mandibulofacial dysostosis and maybe other defects couldn't really tell for sure.
[h3][/h3]

 

[Katpau]

Nope.
But she should consider herself lucky for finding out before using him and not afterwards.

Yes, she was pretty happy that she decided to look up his current EPDs. She had just bought the semen. I think he was rather popular, so I would guess there will be a lot of unhappy customers. I'm surprised to see that his semen is still being advertised with no mention of a problem.
She was told he received the defective gene from his sire, Hometown. That means it is now probably in a lot of herds.

" Hometown 10Y was the 2014 NWSS Reserve National Champion and the 2013 National Champion Polled Bull. With nearly 5000 progeny,"

 

[Son of Butch]

SPH - location Iowa,
posted 2 yrs ago that they liked the Hometown 10y calves they saw and were using his son Small Town Kid. Maybe if they see this, they will weigh in on the subject.

 

[TCFRH]

MDF requires both parents to be carriers of the gene, and it appears to have stemmed from the NJW herd. If you don't have NJW genetics in your existing herd, you're probably okay to use the semen.

 

[Son of Butch]

MDF requires both parents to be carriers of the gene, and it appears to have stemmed from the NJW herd. If you don't have NJW genetics in your existing herd, you're probably okay to use the semen.

Why?
To proliferate the spread of MDF for future generations?

More plumbers than electricians are electrocuted each year because you're probably okay to install this thing-a-ma-jig without disconnecting the power.

 

[W.B.]

Why?
To proliferate the spread of MDF for future generations?

More plumbers than electricians are electrocuted each year because you're probably okay to install this thing-a-ma-jig without disconnecting the power.

I agree. The AHA has taken a very poor stance

 

[W.B.]

What I was trying to say was the AHA has taken a poor stance by not labeling pedigrees that are potential carriers of tested known defects. We had a couple of epileptic calves a few years ago and went through some pedigrees and found one bull was a potential carrier. We don't run Hereford bulls anymore.

 

[TCFRH]

Why?
To proliferate the spread of MDF for future generations?

More plumbers than electricians are electrocuted each year because you're probably okay to install this thing-a-ma-jig without disconnecting the power.

I'm wrong you're right. I'll shut up now. Goodbye.

 

[Son of Butch]

I'm wrong you're right. I'll shut up now. Goodbye.

NO, you made a good point and made others aware of origin.
You just should've added that while it's all well and good to use him for terminal production don't include him, or other carriers of known problem traits, in your plans for replacement heifers or for selling breeding bulls.

 

[smartin0022]

My friend was planning to AI her heifers to the Hereford bull, Small Town Kid, next week, so she went to look at his current EPDs. Apparently it showed his registration as being pulled, and when she called Select Sires to ask about it, she was told he was found to be a carrier of some defect. Select Sires has agreed to replace the semen with another bull, but she only has a few days before they plan to AI.

Has anyone else heard anything about this?

Yeah I bought semen off him too. Same deal, now I'm using NJW 160B 028X HISTORIC 81E ET. I heard it was basically like cleft palate in calves that he was a carrier of... That's just hearsay I'm not sure what the vet term for it was.

 

[TCFRH]

I heard it was basically like cleft palate in calves that he was a carrier of

To me, it's more horrifying than that. AHA press release with photos.

NO, you made a good point and made others aware of origin.

Thanks Butch. I should have clarified exactly what you said.

 

[SPH]

SPH - location Iowa,
posted 2 yrs ago that they liked the Hometown 10y calves they saw and were using his son Small Town Kid. Maybe if they see this, they will weigh in on the subject.

We used STK a couple years before they MD defect became know and was being tested for. We got some really good calves out of him, he added a lot of muscle and little extra depth in the hind quarters I thought. Really disappointed when we found out he was a MD carrier and we had used all our semen we had on him so that was it. Still have 1 heifer sired by him that calved this spring that we'll get DNA tested so we know if she has it or not. You have to have both sire and dam as a carrier of this defect in order for the defect to present itself which we never had because we don't have any other bloodlines in our herd that would be MD carriers. We already do a lot of DNA testing in our small herd so we're very diligent about keeping on top of this stuff. We got a big scare a few years ago when the MSUD defect came out as we had used the sire who is the main origin of it 936 and kept a son of his who also came up as a carrier. We DNA tested all our females out of 936 and that son and fortunately just 1 came back as a carrier so we dodged a bullet there as a lot of guys who used 936 were seeing about 50% or more come back as carriers.

Just like any carriers you have to be diligent about testing and make management decisions for them. Obviously the easiest way not to add to the number of carriers is to either stop using the bull entirely or DNA test any progeny that is kept and not sent to the feedlot as terminal. We don't buy bulls or semen on any bulls with known defects or ones that haven't been tested for them but unfortunately we've have used bulls that at the time were clean of current known defects then turned out to be carrier of a new defect and had to do additional DNA testing after the fact. Never had any calves with the actual defect as like I said you have to have both parents carriers in order for the defect to present itself. Angus has even more known defects than Herefords do so seedstock operations just have to be more diligent about DNA testing these days and making proper management decisions.

 

[SPH]

MDF requires both parents to be carriers of the gene, and it appears to have stemmed from the NJW herd. If you don't have NJW genetics in your existing herd, you're probably okay to use the semen.

While Hometown 10Y and Homegrown 8Y are probably the 2 biggest spreaders of it because they were used AI by a lot of people that is not necessarily the case that NJW operation is the origin of the defect. If you check the pedigree on 10Y http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-b...&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5A5D5B592658582524&9=5051585E his sire SHF Wonder who tested as MDC is not a bull they bred but strangely somehow both his sire and dam are MDF which makes no sense so my guess is there is a possible pedigree error on the dam side that was not caught when DNA testing was not as common. His supposed dam would be 20 years old today and Wonder was born in 2009 so its not like you can go collect new DNA samples from animals that are dead now.

I'd be very careful about making blanket statements about other breeders operations without fully knowing the whole story behind something. Just like anyone else that is a victim of using a bull that turns out to be a carrier of a defect later on it's usually an older animal back in the pedigree somewhere that that is the source. If you happened to use a bull that at the time you thought was clean then years later it turns out they were a carrier of a defect and you had sold semen on or sold bulls sired by that bull and he also is a carrier does that make your herd the source of the defect? It does not, it just means just like your customers you too have become the unfortunate victim of unknowingly passing on a defect that at the time you made breeding decisions under the assumption that the bull was not a carrier of any defects. It just means that now you have the responsibility of identifying possible carriers in your herd and making management decisions based on the DNA test results.

 

[Rmc]

To me not using a bull because he is a known carrier is a little extreme to me .to ignore all the possible positives a bull could add to your herd to me is like ignoring all other traits except birth weight .
Examine a possible herd sire both positive and negative traits as a whole rather then a single specific trait.
I would have no problem using a heifer out of a known carrier bull . Just be responsible about it and have the heifer tested for the trait .

 

[Ky hills]

To me not using a bull because he is a known carrier is a little extreme to me .to ignore all the possible positives a bull could add to your herd to me is like ignoring all other traits except birth weight .
Examine a possible herd sire both positive and negative traits as a whole rather then a single specific trait.
I would have no problem using a heifer out of a known carrier bull . Just be responsible about it and have the heifer tested for the trait .

That works in theory, but not everyone tests and or is responsible in representing their animals especially if they are marketing to commercial herds. Then when carrier animals get into commercial herds those folks find out the hard way, by dead calves or open cows depending on which trait and how it affects.

 

[SPH]

To me not using a bull because he is a known carrier is a little extreme to me .to ignore all the possible positives a bull could add to your herd to me is like ignoring all other traits except birth weight .
Examine a possible herd sire both positive and negative traits as a whole rather then a single specific trait.
I would have no problem using a heifer out of a known carrier bull . Just be responsible about it and have the heifer tested for the trait .

You are free to use any bull you want but if you choose to use one that is a known defect carrier you also need to do the responsible thing and DNA test any progeny that is not sent to the feedlot for genetic defects as you will want to know which animals are carriers and how to properly manage them. Personally it is so much easier to just avoid breeding to a bull with a known defect because it's 1 less expense to not have to DNA test every single calf you decide to keep or sell as seedstock and less hassle to manage as well. If you are just breeding for terminal cattle and everything sired by that bull is going to wind up on a dinner plate then by all means use that bull as much as you want because you aren't going to be adding more animals carrying the defect into the population that way. The scary thing is who knows just how many commercial animals out there across any breed that are defect carriers that we don't know about. This is where being a good steward of your own genetics comes into play because who is to say some guy bought a load of crossbreds at the sale barn that is carrying a genetic defect and then goes out and buys a bull that is also a carrier then next thing they know they are getting dead calves or other genetic disorders from the mating.

We've used 2 bulls AI now that at the time had no known genetic defects with 936 having later be identified as a MSUD carrier and then Small Town Kid with MD. We had to pull a bunch of DNA samples from anything directly related to 936 or our 936 son that also came up MSUC to make sure we knew which or if any of our females had it so we could make management decisions and luckily we only used Small Town Kid for 2 breeding seasons so we didn't get a lot calves by him and the ones we did either got DNA tested or sent to the feedlot. Both bulls sired some nice calves for us but knowing what we know now we'd never use either of them again just because it's not good for our herd and seedstock customers to be playing roulette with genetic defects that we can proactively avoid by just not using a bull that we know is a defect carrier. That's just our breeding philosophy and that is not saying what we do is what everyone should do but it is also a bit careless if you do choose to use a defect carrier that you do so with the intent to DNA test anything you keep back for replacements or otherwise send the calves off to the feedlot where they can't propagate the defect any further if they are a carrier. There are plenty of sons out of these genetic lines that you can probably find a good one that is not a carrier to use if you really want to use that line of genetics too.

 

[Rmc]

As I said in my earlier post you need to be responsible if using a known carrier bull and have offspring tested.
But anyone who thinks that by not using known carrier bulls in their herd will prevent their herd from carrying genes for defects are sadly mistaken. Every herd will have genes for defective traits.
if you doubt that take your best animals and closely line breed them for 3-4 generations and see what you end up with.