SteppedInIt
Well-known member
This is an interesting idea. Using batteries on a remote location for power, this sounds like something useful for me.backhoeboogie":27pwpxbx said:
Small scale solar
- Thread starter slick4591
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lavacarancher
Well-known member
Backhoe, you have no clue what you're talking about, do you?
Lets take the solar panel first. The panel you show is an 18 watt panel. What that means is that it will only supply approximately 1.5 amps of charge current for a few hours on a good, bright day. That is if it lasts for more than a couple of hours. Load on the batteries is over 85 amps. The battery you show is ONLY a 100 ampere hour battery. What that means is that the battery (one) will power the incubators for close to an hour before going flat (maybe). It also means that the panel will take close to 100 hours of bright sun to recharge the battery (one). He didn't say what that ratio should be (drain time vs charge time)
Last, the inverter you show is going to pull 85 amps from the battery (one) when suppling power to the incubator and it's going to try that with 10 or 12 ga. primary wire???? BULLSHYT! It will require IMO 1/0 primary wire at least (I can calculate that or look it up if you really want me to).
I had to read a lot into Slicks request. What he didn't say was how long he expected to be without power. He said he didn't like having to get up and start a generator which implies the change over should be automatic no matter if the system is generator powered or solar powered.
Lets take the solar panel first. The panel you show is an 18 watt panel. What that means is that it will only supply approximately 1.5 amps of charge current for a few hours on a good, bright day. That is if it lasts for more than a couple of hours. Load on the batteries is over 85 amps. The battery you show is ONLY a 100 ampere hour battery. What that means is that the battery (one) will power the incubators for close to an hour before going flat (maybe). It also means that the panel will take close to 100 hours of bright sun to recharge the battery (one). He didn't say what that ratio should be (drain time vs charge time)
Last, the inverter you show is going to pull 85 amps from the battery (one) when suppling power to the incubator and it's going to try that with 10 or 12 ga. primary wire???? BULLSHYT! It will require IMO 1/0 primary wire at least (I can calculate that or look it up if you really want me to).
I had to read a lot into Slicks request. What he didn't say was how long he expected to be without power. He said he didn't like having to get up and start a generator which implies the change over should be automatic no matter if the system is generator powered or solar powered.
lavacarancher
Well-known member
greybeard":334neh13 said:
I've sent you a PM with places you might try to get your transfer switch. I'll send more info Monday. So after you get this info is it OK for me to go away?
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
I read "small scale". Only to be used for an incubator during a power outage.
My charger sets there at the barn day in and day out. I might use the inverter once or twice a month.
I happen to have deep cycle batteries on the dump trailer, on the spray rig and on the trolling motor.
If we go to a gathering the inverter will run both large and small ice cream makers right in the back of the truck plus box fans.
Not sure how many watts the ice cream makers pull. Not even sure of the box fan. Collectively I am assuming the incubator would pull less but I also don't know if his ambient temp is 20 degrees or 60. So I am indeed assuming.
If he has two power outages a month, I think he'd be okay.
Certainly I am not an expert. But I do have the units and I do use them without issues.
Solar hot water is of interest to me. I go home, turn on the water hose, and the stagnant water in the hose is extremely hot. That's my limit. Would like to capture that energy in the hot water tank.
My charger sets there at the barn day in and day out. I might use the inverter once or twice a month.
I happen to have deep cycle batteries on the dump trailer, on the spray rig and on the trolling motor.
If we go to a gathering the inverter will run both large and small ice cream makers right in the back of the truck plus box fans.
Not sure how many watts the ice cream makers pull. Not even sure of the box fan. Collectively I am assuming the incubator would pull less but I also don't know if his ambient temp is 20 degrees or 60. So I am indeed assuming.
If he has two power outages a month, I think he'd be okay.
Certainly I am not an expert. But I do have the units and I do use them without issues.
Solar hot water is of interest to me. I go home, turn on the water hose, and the stagnant water in the hose is extremely hot. That's my limit. Would like to capture that energy in the hot water tank.
hurleyjd
Well-known member
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-so ... 68751.html
Are these panels worth the price and how would they work in the discussion here.
Are these panels worth the price and how would they work in the discussion here.
Nesikep
Well-known member
I just don't see the return on investment by charging solar.. the same money spent on solar panels put into batteries would increase runtime more per $ spent.. just recharge when the power comes back on.
Another point is that the incubators are very unlikely to run at 100% duty cycle.. they may run at the same time, so the invertor power rating needs to be able to supply both, but in all likelyhood they run closer to 20-40% duty once up to temp...
So 350W x 2 = 700 W x 35% duty = 210 W average draw.
Lets say you want an 8 hour run time, so 210W x 8 = 1680w.hr
Using a 12V system, 1680/12 = 140 Amp hour minimum
According to http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html, batteries amp hour figure is typically given over 20 hours, and it's not a good idea to discharge a whole lot faster than that.. a typical car battery is 50 amp hour, so you need a minimum of 3 to get 140 AH, but that will be discharging them too fast..
Peak draw is 700W or 60amps
typical car battery (50AH over 20 hrs = 2.5A continuous), you need 60/2.5 = 24 batteries to really follow suggested guidelines on amperage draw.. 24 batteries would have 24x50AH = 1200AH, which would mean you could run nearly 60 hours on that bank of batteries..
If you had about 6 batteries and a 1000W inverter and charger, I think you'd reliably have 8 hours, and most likely more run time... Adding solar isn't going to help you if the power outage happens at night, so you need the storage capacity to get you through that.. Additionally, if 210W is the average draw, you're going to need at least 600W (probably 1200) of solar panels to even get close to keeping up with that, that's if you have reliable sun when you're battling storms.
A gen set is so much easier.. Honda makes some little inverter gen sets that only throttle as much as required to generate the power, they're dead silent and tiny for that power output
Lo and behold http://powerequipment.honda.ca/generato ... es/eu1000i
7 hours run time at 25% load! and it's only $1k, which is about the price of the batteries alone.
Another point is that the incubators are very unlikely to run at 100% duty cycle.. they may run at the same time, so the invertor power rating needs to be able to supply both, but in all likelyhood they run closer to 20-40% duty once up to temp...
So 350W x 2 = 700 W x 35% duty = 210 W average draw.
Lets say you want an 8 hour run time, so 210W x 8 = 1680w.hr
Using a 12V system, 1680/12 = 140 Amp hour minimum
According to http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/bat.html, batteries amp hour figure is typically given over 20 hours, and it's not a good idea to discharge a whole lot faster than that.. a typical car battery is 50 amp hour, so you need a minimum of 3 to get 140 AH, but that will be discharging them too fast..
Peak draw is 700W or 60amps
typical car battery (50AH over 20 hrs = 2.5A continuous), you need 60/2.5 = 24 batteries to really follow suggested guidelines on amperage draw.. 24 batteries would have 24x50AH = 1200AH, which would mean you could run nearly 60 hours on that bank of batteries..
If you had about 6 batteries and a 1000W inverter and charger, I think you'd reliably have 8 hours, and most likely more run time... Adding solar isn't going to help you if the power outage happens at night, so you need the storage capacity to get you through that.. Additionally, if 210W is the average draw, you're going to need at least 600W (probably 1200) of solar panels to even get close to keeping up with that, that's if you have reliable sun when you're battling storms.
A gen set is so much easier.. Honda makes some little inverter gen sets that only throttle as much as required to generate the power, they're dead silent and tiny for that power output
Lo and behold http://powerequipment.honda.ca/generato ... es/eu1000i
7 hours run time at 25% load! and it's only $1k, which is about the price of the batteries alone.
OP
OP
slick4591
Well-known member
hdrockn":k32bm5da said:
I looked hard at those and decided to bite. Thanks for the suggestion and all of the suggestions in this thread! The only bad feedback I got was from a warranty repair shop and he said they were sometime hard to deal with on warranty work. Others said they had no problems. After a little assembly this is her.
greybeard
Well-known member
Yeah, but you're missing the whole clean/green/sustainability/gluten free aspect which no monetary price tag can be placed on. Just think--"Our eggs and meat hatched are from chickens hatched the responsible way--from Solar!"Nesikep":36exn8rc said:
Nesikep
Well-known member
it's deliberate!greybeard":and7whil said:
