Small registered herd ?

[Ebenezer]

My advice is to go to some of elite and specialty sales and keep your eyes and ears open. You'll figure out if you can afford to get in or stay out real quick.
Then trying to run a registered cattle business on leased ground isn't going to work. Having good working facilities is a must, and someone being around 24-7 is also advisable if not mandatory.
With a small registered herd you need to know how to AI and breed on observed heat.
I personally don't think that you can have a registered herd without some commercial cattle. There's alot of commercial cows that raise as good or better calf as any registered cow. And they would be excellent choices for ET.
All cattle no matter what the paperwork says will not be worthy of being registered. Registering cattle just because they can qualify and selling them, will only hurt you and the breed in the long run.
Good luck, being a small fish in a big pond stinks.

That is good advice trying to run registered with 15 head is just smoke getting blown up his butt. He will never recoup the startup cost on those cows in there life time.

http://www.angushall.com/history.html Read the Traveler story. Find out where Lovana came from. The size of herd has nothing to do with quality just as the price tells nothing about value. Read the history of Wye and the size herds they visited where they bought bulls in Europe. Like Alan Jackson says, "It's alright to be little bitty"! :clap: We have sent cows and bulls through the sale barn with papers and folks have gotten some of them transferred. If nothing else it lets the buyer pick up a commercial bull or a commercial cow with a known background even if they do not get the papers. These type sales are tied to timing issues, family sickness, drought or other reasons other than unloading duds. If they are duds the papers stay out of the deal.

 

[backhoeboogie]

If nothing else it lets the buyer pick up a commercial bull or a commercial cow with a known background even if they do not get the papers. These type sales are tied to timing issues, family sickness, drought or other reasons other than unloading duds. If they are duds the papers stay out of the deal.

Estate sales are generally the best in that scenario. Kids moved to town decades ago. Parents pass on and the kids just want to liquidate the herd. They run them thru the sale barn.

 

[TexasBred]

Everyone has to start somewhere, I get that. And some folks are paying the bills by using the bull of the month. An average registered Angus cow will cost you $3000. and some have sold for 10 times that amount. I'm hoping that by the time my son is my age he'll have a good quality herd. I'm surly not qualified to give information about breeding registered cattle. Just trying to pass on what little I've seen.

It's really hard trying to stay on track when you have little or no hope left for the country that you love. The future is bleak, but you better plan ahead.

"average" registered go thru the sale barn all the time. Mostly black angus. Ring man is up there waving their papers. There's never any takers for paper. Those cows do not bring anywhere near half of that price you're quoting - with a room filled with order buyers. They sell for the same price as commercial cattle. Seen many registered angus bulls get P.O.'d Saw the same bull get P.O.'d at three different sale barns back around the mid 90's. Did that owner ever figure it out? He paid commission 3 times and did not part with the bull.

The sale barn has never been the place to sell registered cattle except for culls which should be sold without papers and no big hoopla made over them. In your case the guy selling the cows also owns the salebarn so I'm sure he hopes a sucker is in the audience. Kids liquidating are just getting rid of everything at any price. Probably wouldn't know what papers are since maw and paw ain't there to tell them.

 

[dieselbeef]

seems to be a lot of talk about registration...id type it all out but I cant bother to do it..or the registration.
every one of my herd is purebred beefmaster..most come from papered animals. I don't do it. its time consuming. labor intensive. my op doesn't have the setup to give all the info for epd. I could qualify a lot of my animals and maybe even get a premium for them..they come from good places..known names in the biz....but I just cant get done what qualifies a reg animal paperworkwise

it aint just sending in a form

 

[True Grit Farms]

Like it or not the Angus breed is leading the way again. DNA testing of the animal is the way to go. DNA testing can tell you the carcass traits to genetic defects and everything in between. Maybe in the near future DNA testing will be required of the animal or meat before it can be sold as CAB.

 

[dun]

Like it or not the Angus breed is leading the way again. DNA testing of the animal is the way to go. DNA testing can tell you the carcass traits to genetic defects and everything in between. Maybe in the near future DNA testing will be required of the animal or meat before it can be sold as CAB.

Only if the standards for CAB are tossed and completely rewritten. The whole point of cab was to sell black angus bulls.

 

[True Grit Farms]

http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/faq.php

There's a bunch of BS in there, but I see nothing about bulls. I'm curious to hear about the bull aspect of CAB?

 

[Ebenezer]

Like it or not the Angus breed is leading the way again. DNA testing of the animal is the way to go. DNA testing can tell you the carcass traits to genetic defects and everything in between. Maybe in the near future DNA testing will be required of the animal or meat before it can be sold as CAB.

Only if the standards for CAB are tossed and completely rewritten. The whole point of cab was to sell black angus bulls.

You are dead on, usual. The problem now is that the tail wags the dog. A great cow is not great due to her ribeye or marbling but for her fertility, easy care, mothering ability, great feet and legs, able to replicate herself in her daughters, be very similar to her half sib sisters, ...

And I would not bet too much on the DNA because it is based on specific cattle or lines, from what I have read, and if your cattle are not tied to them tightly you can get some dud readings. If DNA is great, why do so many Angus have foot and udder issues that need to be culled? :roll:

 

[True Grit Farms]

Ebenezer, you better than most know everything takes time in the cattle business. Look at the shear numbers of black so called Angus cattle out there, so of course they'll have more feet and hoof issues.
DNA is just another tool in the box to raising quality cattle. And the next generation of cattlemen will live or die by DNA testing of one firm or another.

 

[dieselbeef]

derailed............................................................................................................

 

[Anonymous]

wow havent seen jackson repost anything
dont think they wanted to get caught on the train!! :hide: :hide: :hide: :hide:
all they are saying if your still excited at this point is if your pocket book and spare time is there there is a lot to running regirstired herd small or large but it can be done there is a lot of numbers in reg. stock . and epds are one set of info that you can look at and realize by taking each number one at a time and find out what it takes to put all of it together,depending on what direction you go it will take knowledge of the breeds background and plenty of money to set up the facilities, and invest in the right breeding stock .small average cowcalf can be enjoyable and satisfying. reg heard for sale is a whole nother ball game. :2cents:

 

[backhoeboogie]

Everyone has to start somewhere, I get that. And some folks are paying the bills by using the bull of the month. An average registered Angus cow will cost you $3000. and some have sold for 10 times that amount. I'm hoping that by the time my son is my age he'll have a good quality herd. I'm surly not qualified to give information about breeding registered cattle. Just trying to pass on what little I've seen.

It's really hard trying to stay on track when you have little or no hope left for the country that you love. The future is bleak, but you better plan ahead.

"average" registered go thru the sale barn all the time. Mostly black angus. Ring man is up there waving their papers. There's never any takers for paper. Those cows do not bring anywhere near half of that price you're quoting - with a room filled with order buyers. They sell for the same price as commercial cattle. Seen many registered angus bulls get P.O.'d Saw the same bull get P.O.'d at three different sale barns back around the mid 90's. Did that owner ever figure it out? He paid commission 3 times and did not part with the bull.

The sale barn has never been the place to sell registered cattle except for culls which should be sold without papers and no big hoopla made over them. In your case the guy selling the cows also owns the salebarn so I'm sure he hopes a sucker is in the audience. Kids liquidating are just getting rid of everything at any price. Probably wouldn't know what papers are since maw and paw ain't there to tell them.

He seems ticked off about the Char crossed calves I haul in there. They've all done pretty good thru the ring.

The most papered angus I see are in Dublin. I'm usually just looking for a beef calf to graft onto a nurse cow when I go. Angus would be fine for that. Really don't care what breed so long as it is beef breed.

 

[TexasBred]

He seems ticked off about the Char crossed calves I haul in there. They've all done pretty good thru the ring.

The most papered angus I see are in Dublin. I'm usually just looking for a beef calf to graft onto a nurse cow when I go. Angus would be fine for that. Really don't care what breed so long as it is beef breed.

Give him he//. Let him know those little short fat angus aren't the only cows in the world.

 

[Ebenezer]

Ebenezer, you better than most know everything takes time in the cattle business. Look at the shear numbers of black so called Angus cattle out there, so of course they'll have more feet and hoof issues.
DNA is just another tool in the box to raising quality cattle. And the next generation of cattlemen will live or die by DNA testing of one firm or another.

I am not really talking about black 50%+ cattle that qualify for CAB but the registered, papered, big name and sired by big name Angus cows and bulls that have phenotypic faults such as the same mentioned: feet, legs, udders, teats and I would add disposition, poor top lines and other traits that EPDs do not cover and new tests do not either. One day DNA will walk the dog but right now it is cutting edge with only paper cuts. When DNA can predict the most fertile of females it will be worth the dough. think I was right, and will stand corrected, but the comparative data is most correct if the tested cattle are close kin to the cattle used to solidify the basis.

If time hinders the person from starting in the cattle business then none of us would make progress because we are all short on time even if we have a herd to start. I would try to find someone close that does a good job to buy from if I wanted to start. Kinda lets you start midstream.

 

[dun]

http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/faq.php

There's a bunch of BS in there, but I see nothing about bulls. I'm curious to hear about the bull aspect of CAB?

When cab came along, the only black bulls (with a few exceptions) were angus. If you turned your calves black and the didn;t have a hump you could possibly be eligible for cab premiums. The turning them black for cab was what sparked the current everything black. When your breed is the most common black breed, that means people are going to look for black bulls to turn their calves into "money makers"

 

[backhoeboogie]

http://www.certifiedangusbeef.com/faq.php

There's a bunch of BS in there, but I see nothing about bulls. I'm curious to hear about the bull aspect of CAB?

When cab came along, the only black bulls (with a few exceptions) were angus. If you turned your calves black and the didn;t have a hump you could possibly be eligible for cab premiums. The turning them black for cab was what sparked the current everything black. When your breed is the most common black breed, that means people are going to look for black bulls to turn their calves into "money makers"

Dun you are on the money. It goes back 30 years or better. Lots of koolaid flowed down the river since. There was the Char craze. The Simmental craze. Chi craze. Gerts in the 60's. Others. Angus weren't bad cows just tiny. Then they got bigger. More adapted to southern climates with time. Because they were decent and because associations spent bucks, people thought they were the best thing going. People buying beef still do and some get disappointed from time to time. Choice is choice. They buy angus choice, they are buying choice and not prime. They expect prime just because it is black angus. They even market black angus hot dogs. People pay more for it too. Because of that the horse traders can claim "Money makers".

Prime steak is prime steak. It has nothing to do with breed.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Prime steak is prime steak. It has nothing to do with breed.[/quote]

That is true, but some breeds will grade prime more often than other breeds. So it has a heck of a lot to do with the breed of cow. I would think someone with your experience should know this. There's a lot more to raising cows now a days, than putting grass in front and bull behind the cow. There is also 3 grades of prime and choice beef, and 2 grades for select. If you don't adapt you'll be left behind.

 

[Hickory40CC]

Another option is to raise beef for sale locally to friends, acquaintances of yours. You can spend a little more to get quality forages...and then market grass-fed beef to people. Word-of-mouth will be all the advertisement you'll need. There are a LOT of people out there wanting locally raised, grass-fed beef. Sell it by the carcass weight to eliminate any guess work. Right now, sell it for $3 to $4 a pound carcass weight, and folk won't blink an eye to buy it from ya. That makes those 1000 lb'ers sell for $2000 - $2400...and that's steers AND heifers! I have what I think is the perfect cross for this...3/4 Red Angus 1/4 Limousin. Throw some hereford in there once in a while.

 

[Ebenezer]

It has nothing to do with breed.

Now days, neither does CAB. Just a black hide, animal looks like 50%+ Angus, and a few other little trait disqualifications.

 

[Ojp6]

Prime steak is prime steak. It has nothing to do with breed.

That is true, but some breeds will grade prime more often than other breeds. So it has a heck of a lot to do with the breed of cow. I would think someone with your experience should know this. There's a lot more to raising cows now a days, than putting grass in front and bull behind the cow. There is also 3 grades of prime and choice beef, and 2 grades for select. If you don't adapt you'll be left behind.[/quote]

You are exactly right, a few breeds will grade prime a quite a bit more often than others.
I have a funny story that happened to my neighbor. Nobody will probably believe this but I saw the check when he got it. He sent 14 fats to a kill plant. He was just cleaning out oddballs and was prepared to take a beating on them. There was a longhorn cross heifer that had a calf in the feedyard, the only holstien he had, a jersey cross, a purebred Charolais, and a 4 year old cow that we sold him after she lost a calf. She was really fat but we were expecting her to be called over 30 months and bring fat cow price. He got his check and there was 4 prime and 10 choice.