sire of progeny matter

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Quality, is the most important factor. The commercial market is what drives 99.9% of the seedstock producers including myself.

If we didn't have the commercial market, we would have nothing.
 
MikeC":1r6dwhux said:
Frankie, extremely good point. The seedstock producer has a different customer than the cow calf producer.

Sorry to differ here but the seedstock producers largest bull customer is the cow-calf producer. There are few exceptions.

Mike you were agreeing with me, actually. The point I was trying to make was that the seedstock's customer is the commercial cattleman, and the commercial cattleman's customer are the feedlots. Seedstockers couldn't sell to feedlots.

And as SEC said, without the commericial market, there would be no seedstock market.

Since I don't use nitrogen bulls, I try to find the best bull that fits with my cows, within my price range. I cannot afford a "hot" seedstock bull, nor do I want one. I just want a solid bull that will put good (live) calves on the ground that will grow well. Ribbons, tropies, and fads don't matter when that bull can't pass it on to his get.
 
houstoncutter":2c4bhw5t said:
It takes a great cow to make a great bull........but it takes an even better bull to pass on his traits to his offspring.... Those are the ones seedstock producers should be looking for.

But that "even better" bull won't mean squat unless he's mated to a great cow.
 
SF":9ahmumjo said:
lakading":9ahmumjo said:
I care more about what the dam looks like than the sire.

It takes a great cow to make a great bull.

I'm going to disagree with you here. I care what they both look like. I will agree that the cow is providing 50% of the genetic potential, but the bull is providing the other 50%. It usually takes a great cow and a great bull to make a better bull.

JMO

I never said I don't care about what both look like. Just which one I care about more. i.e. I would rather have a great cow mated to an average bull than an average cow bred to a great bull.
 
There are soooo many great comments here - both on the PB side & the commercial side.
To us, the cow is number one, since we use AI. She is our mainstay, must be great. We are a seedstock producer but we, like most seedstock & c/c producers, sell to the feedlots also. Remember, 1/2 our calf crop is bulls, and I don't know about other breeders, but not every calf with testicles is bull quality. We castrate most of our bull calves and some go to a feedlot and some we retain & put on a feedout program. So high quality steers & carcass also matters to us - greatly. That represents a good percentage of our income. Also, sell some steers for show.
So, breeding AI gives us the opportunity to pick one bull to match one cow. Now I don't buy semen from 40 different sires, but I will breed to 6 or 8 different sires.
We do try a new young bull most every year, on 2-3 head, but he has to be backed by pedigree, phenotype & numbers (actual & predicted)

Great comments everyone.
 
I am reading these posts and it finally dawns on me!


I am not asking if sire matters per say, rather does it matter if the animal is AI sired or not? THat's what I meant
 
Jeanne - Simme Valley":sw8qehpt said:
:shock: I think "I" was pretty clear on that - yes AI sire matters to me.


Jeanne, just want your comments - why, in your opinion, would an A.I. bull be better?
 
Doesn't matter to my customers at all. Especially the commercial customers who are buying bulls. They want good bulls. Could care less about the popularity of the bull or if he was out of an AI sire. To be honest about it. Ussually my clean-up calves are as good or better than the AI calves, but then again we spend from $10,000 to $20,000 on bulls too.
 
cypressfarms":cw28u6z3 said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":cw28u6z3 said:
:shock: I think "I" was pretty clear on that - yes AI sire matters to me.


Jeanne, just want your comments - why, in your opinion, would an A.I. bull be better?

Usually AI sires are proven with lots of progeny on the ground.
 
MikeC":1nf2fykh said:
cypressfarms":1nf2fykh said:
Jeanne - Simme Valley":1nf2fykh said:
:shock: I think "I" was pretty clear on that - yes AI sire matters to me.


Jeanne, just want your comments - why, in your opinion, would an A.I. bull be better?

Usually AI sires are proven with lots of progeny on the ground.

Understand the hooves on the ground point, and there will definitely be less fluctuation in the accuracies of epd's, but I thought that the question was more general in that A.I. sired bulls are better in some way. I just couldn't figure that one out.
 
Howdy,

Does it matter? yes and no

It depends on your reputation, and how long and what end traits you have been working towards. It depends on what traits you are looking to put into your herd. Some operations are not big enough to raise sperate bull traits. AI has its place.
This last month I watched my herd sire mounting a few that obviously the AI didn't take. Well, I thought damn, it didn't take. But, in all respects, my herd sire is no slouch. So, the AI did not work, the herd sire did his job. The resulting calf will be great by either standard.

A great cow herd is something to strive for.

A Bull takes the herd in a direction with traits. The bull selection is of course is based on what your offspring needs. ribs? size? carcass? fleshing? conformation? birth weight?
 
MikeC":2glxw930 said:
Like an old gentleman told me once,

"They'll bring more money the more you can talk about them."

I don't know Mike. I've heard Conovers talk quite awhile about some calves that still don't bring squat. ;-)
 
As I said, it matters TO ME. And yes, marketing is the main reason. And if I'm buying something, I want it out of "known" pedigree, so that the purchased cow is contributing genetics that will hopefully produce a great saleable product.. Now, I'm not referring to pedigrees of "hot" bulls that are all hipe, I want good sound pedigrees. I'm not afraid to try a young bull, with top pedigree on both sides, as I stated.
And someone else stated nicely, if a farm has a solid reputation, and has been producing and selling national bulls, yes of course, their "clean up" bull's calves are probably as good as they get.
I don't use a clean-up bull, but I would hope that my reputation would build to a point that it would carry my "clean-up" calves and maintain a good price.
Bottom line for me, AI vs clean up = $$$$$$$ made or lost.
 
I don't know much about breeding beef cattle, just learning. But I bred reg. holsteins for 35 years. Breeding dairy cattle is different in as much there little market for bulls. When you talk about using the latest hot bull it makes me crindge. If you use old proven bulls its called old genitics. If you want sell for big money you have to have whats hot. Using the latest hot bull bred a lot of good herds right into the gutter. I know from personal experence.
 

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