Simple as Black and White?

[Anonymous]

I know this question could have been posted on any number of forums, but I chose the Beginners Forum because I think the responses will asist more here (including myself)than elsewhere.

First some basic comments, then the body of my question.

I note that the local (USDA tracked) sale barn has a regular practice of (illegal) shill bidding. I will see any number of regular attendees/dealers that buy and also sell in the same auction. I note that if one of the favored regular's steers or group of steers is not bringing the expected price then the auctioneer will "sell" the selecion to the seller at the starting price. example: Opening bid of $80/hwt, no bidders drops to $77, no takers, drops to $75, no bidders, drops to $70, no takers, and then the "seller" (say bider ID number 55) does a small slash with a finger and the auctioneer announces "SOLD to #55x for $80.00" The USDA picks up the sale for the reporting of sale prices as valid and at $80/hwt. This practice does all of us a dis-service. It is also illegal, but it goes on every day.

Enough of the soap box, here's my Question:

I see that ANY "black" steer (or cow) will bring a decent price, regardless of heritage as they can be passed off as "Angus." I also note that any "white" steer or cow also brings decent money. Any Hereford, red, beefmaster, shorthorn, etc seems to take a rather hard hit. I understand the garbage about the angus marketing, and also realize that anything black is going to be passed on as "certified angus" but I am wondering why the interest in the white (Charolais?) steers? Why are they bringing near equal prices as the blacks and yet the other proven breeds are taking a hit down to the range of common range cattle?

Sorry it's long, I look forward to the relpies.

Eaglewerks

[email protected]

 

[Anonymous]

A lot of the color thing is regeional, around here reds sell as well as blacks, baldies the same, if it has a whiote neck patch it get's docked HARD. White is usually less then red or black.

dunmovin farms

> I know this question could have
> been posted on any number of
> forums, but I chose the Beginners
> Forum because I think the
> responses will asist more here
> (including myself)than elsewhere.

> First some basic comments, then
> the body of my question.

> I note that the local (USDA
> tracked) sale barn has a regular
> practice of (illegal) shill
> bidding. I will see any number of
> regular attendees/dealers that buy
> and also sell in the same auction.
> I note that if one of the favored
> regular's steers or group of
> steers is not bringing the
> expected price then the auctioneer
> will "sell" the selecion
> to the seller at the starting
> price. example: Opening bid of
> $80/hwt, no bidders drops to $77,
> no takers, drops to $75, no
> bidders, drops to $70, no takers,
> and then the "seller"
> (say bider ID number 55) does a
> small slash with a finger and the
> auctioneer announces "SOLD to
> #55x for $80.00" The USDA
> picks up the sale for the
> reporting of sale prices as valid
> and at $80/hwt. This practice does
> all of us a dis-service. It is
> also illegal, but it goes on every
> day.

> Enough of the soap box, here's my
> Question:

> I see that ANY "black"
> steer (or cow) will bring a decent
> price, regardless of heritage as
> they can be passed off as
> "Angus." I also note
> that any "white" steer
> or cow also brings decent money.
> Any Hereford, red, beefmaster,
> shorthorn, etc seems to take a
> rather hard hit. I understand the
> garbage about the angus marketing,
> and also realize that anything
> black is going to be passed on as
> "certified angus" but I
> am wondering why the interest in
> the white (Charolais?) steers? Why
> are they bringing near equal
> prices as the blacks and yet the
> other proven breeds are taking a
> hit down to the range of common
> range cattle?

> Sorry it's long, I look forward to
> the relpies.

> Eaglewerks

 

[Anonymous]

Around here (Southeastern Nebraska), Blacks and Black Baldies seem to always sell highest, followed by Red anything. White/cream sells low.

Wednesday night -- 700 pounders -- Blacks brought $80-$83/hwt, Reds brought right around $75/hwt, while White/Cream brought a top of $69/hwt. Then we have these strange looking Black and White things, mostly Black but with large White blotches on the sides -- they brought $60/hwt.

Personally, I really like the pale Cream w/White face Hereford/Charlais/Angus cross cows (mine are from Hereford and Black Baldie cows crossed to a Charlais, then their heifers crossed to Red Angus) If you breed these Creams to Black Angus, you'll get nice Black Baldie calves.

Ann B

> A lot of the color thing is
> regeional, around here reds sell
> as well as blacks, baldies the
> same, if it has a whiote neck
> patch it get's docked HARD. White
> is usually less then red or black.

> dunmovin farms

 

[Anonymous]

Wow! Where to start....your observation is correct. Although sale barns are tracked by USDA, and governed by the LMA (Livestock Marketing Association), no one wants to buck the system. It would be a much cleaner, neater deal if they would just PO (no sale) these cattle that don't bring the desired price. The practice of shill bidding has gone on for years, and doesn't seem to be a secret, yet no one cares to take the steps necessary to clean this act up. I'm afraid the old proverbial, "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" can be applied here. There are, however, some marketing venues out there today that attempt to eliminate these practices, (i.e. <A HREF="http://www.producersvideoauction.com" TARGET="_blank">http://www.producersvideoauction.com</A> ). Now, as for the black cattle seeming to always bring the market, this stems from the fact that there is more predictability in black hided cattle. One would think that we would have, by this time, progressed somewhat further in our industry as to look beyond the hide, but we haven't. Take, for instance, the order buying firm that sends their man out to the sale barns to procure cattle for them. It would be extremely difficult without this buyer already knowing how to positively identify good red cattle or good white cattle from bad ones, to explain to him what he should be looking for. It is simply easier for the firm to insist that the buyer buy these off colored cattle at a substantially discounted price than it is to educate him on exactly which ones work and which ones won't. You might also notice that the white hided cattle that you see bringing the market have black noses. White cattle with pink noses bring as great a discount as any that sell. This is because the black nosed charolais have black angus in them.(black nosed charolais)

Predictable red genetics will bring as good a price as any. But since there is such a large variety of red hided cattle that are unproven, or have proven to be inferior, they are required to have better source varification. To those of us that raise off colored cattle, I think we can expect to continue receiving discounted prices, unless we are willing to put our money where our mouth is. Retaining part ownership in our cattle into the feedyards, and receiving kill data would be a great start. If we aren't willing to keep a vested interest in what we do, why should we expect others to. (condensed version, believe it or not)

Hope this helps.

> I know this question could have
> been posted on any number of
> forums, but I chose the Beginners
> Forum because I think the
> responses will asist more here
> (including myself)than elsewhere.

> First some basic comments, then
> the body of my question.

> I note that the local (USDA
> tracked) sale barn has a regular
> practice of (illegal) shill
> bidding. I will see any number of
> regular attendees/dealers that buy
> and also sell in the same auction.
> I note that if one of the favored
> regular's steers or group of
> steers is not bringing the
> expected price then the auctioneer
> will "sell" the selecion
> to the seller at the starting
> price. example: Opening bid of
> $80/hwt, no bidders drops to $77,
> no takers, drops to $75, no
> bidders, drops to $70, no takers,
> and then the "seller"
> (say bider ID number 55) does a
> small slash with a finger and the
> auctioneer announces "SOLD to
> #55x for $80.00" The USDA
> picks up the sale for the
> reporting of sale prices as valid
> and at $80/hwt. This practice does
> all of us a dis-service. It is
> also illegal, but it goes on every
> day.

> Enough of the soap box, here's my
> Question:

> I see that ANY "black"
> steer (or cow) will bring a decent
> price, regardless of heritage as
> they can be passed off as
> "Angus." I also note
> that any "white" steer
> or cow also brings decent money.
> Any Hereford, red, beefmaster,
> shorthorn, etc seems to take a
> rather hard hit. I understand the
> garbage about the angus marketing,
> and also realize that anything
> black is going to be passed on as
> "certified angus" but I
> am wondering why the interest in
> the white (Charolais?) steers? Why
> are they bringing near equal
> prices as the blacks and yet the
> other proven breeds are taking a
> hit down to the range of common
> range cattle?

> Sorry it's long, I look forward to
> the relpies.

> Eaglewerks

 

[Anonymous]

> Around here (Southeastern
> Nebraska), Blacks and Black
> Baldies seem to always sell
> highest, followed by Red anything.
> White/cream sells low.

> Wednesday night -- 700 pounders --
> Blacks brought $80-$83/hwt, Reds
> brought right around $75/hwt,
> while White/Cream brought a top of
> $69/hwt. Then we have these
> strange looking Black and White
> things, mostly Black but with
> large White blotches on the sides
> -- they brought $60/hwt.

> Personally, I really like the pale
> Cream w/White face
> Hereford/Charlais/Angus cross cows
> (mine are from Hereford and Black
> Baldie cows crossed to a Charlais,
> then their heifers crossed to Red
> Angus) If you breed these Creams
> to Black Angus, you'll get nice
> Black Baldie calves.

> Ann B

Here in the south,at the sale barn in Ala. The charlais X calfs do the best,then black white face,then black,then red last.But as long as they are charlais X they always do bestin my location.

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