sickly bottle calf

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Anonymous

i am very inexperienced but willing to do what i need to do.i have a 10 day old holstein bull calf that is a wide backed large healthy calf when i bought it at 3 days old. it took 2 days to get it to feed .it was weak but know it is on schedule with other calfs and drinks half gal.in am and another half gal.in pm of purina milk replacer & eating calf starter.now his eyes are draining, runny nose,loose stool,strains to poop.but still nurses a bottle great but you can tell he's weak-sick WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ?



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A

Anonymous

Is the calf coming down with scours? Did you consult with your Vet on him? Finally (no offense intended, please), why did you take delivery on an extremely young calf? Calves need a lot more time nursing mama (unless of course, mama died or something). We usually keep our calves on the teat as well as let them graze in pasture until 6 or 7 months old. We don't let buyer take delivery before calf is weaned. However, we did take a delivery on a calf at about 5 months or so age--it took her several months to catch up since she was weaned too early (in my humble opinion).

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Anonymous

Dairy calves are a whole different proposition. They are removed from the cow at birth or within a day or two and bottle fed. They are ussually weaned at 8-10 weeks and turn out just fine. Now to the sick calf. I'ld take it's temp, but I'ld probably give it a shot of Nuflor (available from your vet) no matter what his temp is. Cattle, especially young calves are prone to all sorts of respritory problems from the stress of being moved, being weaned or removed from mom, change of feeds, etc. Insure you are feeding a high quality milk replacer, milk and milk by-products not soy.

dun

> Is the calf coming down with
> scours? Did you consult with your
> Vet on him? Finally (no offense
> intended, please), why did you
> take delivery on an extremely
> young calf? Calves need a lot more
> time nursing mama (unless of
> course, mama died or something).
> We usually keep our calves on the
> teat as well as let them graze in
> pasture until 6 or 7 months old.
> We don't let buyer take delivery
> before calf is weaned. However, we
> did take a delivery on a calf at
> about 5 months or so age--it took
> her several months to catch up
> since she was weaned too early (in
> my humble opinion).
 
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A

Anonymous

we raise hosteins bull calves also,,Like Dun said make sure it is a good milk replacer if the calf has scours you need to give him electrolytes also as needed, we give our calves nuflor it does the job , or La 200 but nuflor is better. He might need a couple shots of this Only time will tell about the calf there is no gaurentee with these calves could be he didnt get enough of his moms milk the first 24 hours hope this helps
 
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A

Anonymous

I get days old calfs. Auction is on Wens. so born on Tues. are 1 day old, born fri. are 5 day. I only have a couple so I bucket feed. It takes a couple days to get them on the bucket and up and going. The biggest thing is don't cheap out on milk replacer. I buy and use the best medicated milk replacer I can get. We raised many bucket calves and scours was almost garenteed at some point. We used the tablets and deluted the milk. (Bacteria in the intestines causes scours so the diluted mixture gave the bacteria less food.) With the medicated milk replacer I use now I have not had a problem with scours (they get a little antibiotic with each meal). So first check the milk replacer, is it medicated? If not you will want to treat, either with shots, tablets, powders; check with feed store, vet or local farmer on what is availible, dosage etc. 1/2 gal. AM and PM and on calf starter @ 10 days? I usually offer 1 gal. each feeding with a bucket. The first couple days there is waste as they are learning and they only drink about 1/2 a gallon. After they get the hang of the bucket they will go to a gallon AM and PM then up to 1 1/2 gallon AM and PM. The replacer costs I realize, but it is the best thing other then mamma. 10 days to be on starter seems quick to me. I have a 3 1/2 week old calf right now. I just introduced her to starter. She is feeding on the 1 1/2 gal. AM and PM. Next week I will start reducing milk. She has water availible 24 hours in her stall and now the calf starter 24 hours. As milk is reduced I expect her to move to water and starter. I would suggest you check milk replacer if not medicated then treat for scours. Increase the amount per feeding to at least 1 gal. and relax on the starter. Calves with mamma live on milk alone for a few weeks. His tummy may not be ready for the starter especially if he is not drinking enough water with it. 1 gal. of water a day does not seem like enough to me. Replacer and starter and only one gallon of water a day is a lot of nutrients in his system and not much water. If you stay with the starter then at least increase the amount he is drinking even if amount of replacer you add is the same. Replacer and starter are food and water is water. So deluted replacer and grain can give him enough food and water or increase the amount of milk replacer with the increase of water and drop the grain. (This is what I would do and use medicated milk replacer). My schedual for a bucket calf then is: 1st week- train on bucket 1/2 gal. AM&PM

2-3rd week- Quality medicated milk replacer increasing up to 1 1/2 gal. AM&PM by the end of week 2.

4th week- introduce calf stater and water 1 1/2 gal. repalcer AM&PM

5th-6th week reduce slowly milk replacer to 1/2 gal. AM&PM by the end of week 6. Water and starter availible 24/7

7th-8th week - 1/2 gal. AM&PM for suppliment and min. med. as the calf moves to grain and water.

8th week on- starter and water 24/7 until they start on hay and finishing starter between feedings. Then move on to grain mix in starter increasing grain until they are eventually on AM&PM grain feedings and hay. Water 24/7

About 3-6 months depending on time of year they were born turn out to pasture with AM&PM grain and hay until they are on the grass. Again water 24/7 This is for small time family farm with a few head. But it gives calves a good start. Other things to make sure of: their stall is dry and draft free. Calves can take cold but not draft and neither if they are damp. Make sure the stall drains or is cleaned often and has plenty of bedding. I start with straw and wood shaving and then hay as they move off of milk replacer. Another note kind of on the side. I am lazy. I have a well drained stall for calves that I do not clean until the calf is out. The thick straw and wood chips makes a base that later with hay allows liquids to drain down through. The base in the stall will grow to at least a foot deep. The bottom layer will start to compost in the stall. This actually produces some heat in the floor of the stall. (remember I am in NY and cold winters and young calves is a concern) Went the calf is put to pasture I clean the stall right out to my wife's garden. This makes great compost for her garden. So by not cleaning I get heat, less work and an impoved garden. This only works if the stall drains well. Also always clean completely between calves and disinfect. I hope this helps. Increase his water intake. Being 10 days old and a Holstein I assume he is about 110 lbs give or take 20lbs. I think he needs more then 7% of his weight in water per day. Mine is getting 3 gals to 120lbs. That is 20% of her weight in water each day. She needs this to matabolise food, grow and keep her digestive system in working order. Anything less then 10% of weight in water per day seems very low to me for a growing calf.

> i am very inexperienced but
> willing to do what i need to do.i
> have a 10 day old holstein bull
> calf that is a wide backed large
> healthy calf when i bought it at 3
> days old. it took 2 days to get it
> to feed .it was weak but know it
> is on schedule with other calfs
> and drinks half gal.in am and
> another half gal.in pm of purina
> milk replacer & eating calf
> starter.now his eyes are draining,
> runny nose,loose stool,strains to
> poop.but still nurses a bottle
> great but you can tell he's
> weak-sick WHAT DO I NEED TO DO ?



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OP
A

Anonymous

but calves by a week or two at the most are already chewing their cud. They can't get all of the nutrition available, but they're working on developing the flora required to digest solids. I'm always surprised when I first see a calf, some as early as 4 days, chewing their cud.

dun

> I get days old calfs. Auction is
> on Wens. so born on Tues. are 1
> day old, born fri. are 5 day. I
> only have a couple so I bucket
> feed. It takes a couple days to
> get them on the bucket and up and
> going. The biggest thing is don't
> cheap out on milk replacer. I buy
> and use the best medicated milk
> replacer I can get. We raised many
> bucket calves and scours was
> almost garenteed at some point. We
> used the tablets and deluted the
> milk. (Bacteria in the intestines
> causes scours so the diluted
> mixture gave the bacteria less
> food.) With the medicated milk
> replacer I use now I have not had
> a problem with scours (they get a
> little antibiotic with each meal).
> So first check the milk replacer,
> is it medicated? If not you will
> want to treat, either with shots,
> tablets, powders; check with feed
> store, vet or local farmer on what
> is availible, dosage etc. 1/2 gal.
> AM and PM and on calf starter @ 10
> days? I usually offer 1 gal. each
> feeding with a bucket. The first
> couple days there is waste as they
> are learning and they only drink
> about 1/2 a gallon. After they get
> the hang of the bucket they will
> go to a gallon AM and PM then up
> to 1 1/2 gallon AM and PM. The
> replacer costs I realize, but it
> is the best thing other then
> mamma. 10 days to be on starter
> seems quick to me. I have a 3 1/2
> week old calf right now. I just
> introduced her to starter. She is
> feeding on the 1 1/2 gal. AM and
> PM. Next week I will start
> reducing milk. She has water
> availible 24 hours in her stall
> and now the calf starter 24 hours.
> As milk is reduced I expect her to
> move to water and starter. I would
> suggest you check milk replacer if
> not medicated then treat for
> scours. Increase the amount per
> feeding to at least 1 gal. and
> relax on the starter. Calves with
> mamma live on milk alone for a few
> weeks. His tummy may not be ready
> for the starter especially if he
> is not drinking enough water with
> it. 1 gal. of water a day does not
> seem like enough to me. Replacer
> and starter and only one gallon of
> water a day is a lot of nutrients
> in his system and not much water.
> If you stay with the starter then
> at least increase the amount he is
> drinking even if amount of
> replacer you add is the same.
> Replacer and starter are food and
> water is water. So deluted
> replacer and grain can give him
> enough food and water or increase
> the amount of milk replacer with
> the increase of water and drop the
> grain. (This is what I would do
> and use medicated milk replacer).
> My schedual for a bucket calf then
> is: 1st week- train on bucket 1/2
> gal. AM&PM

> 2-3rd week- Quality medicated milk
> replacer increasing up to 1 1/2
> gal. AM&PM by the end of week 2.

> 4th week- introduce calf stater
> and water 1 1/2 gal. repalcer
> AM&PM

> 5th-6th week reduce slowly milk
> replacer to 1/2 gal. AM&PM by the
> end of week 6. Water and starter
> availible 24/7

> 7th-8th week - 1/2 gal. AM&PM for
> suppliment and min. med. as the
> calf moves to grain and water.

> 8th week on- starter and water
> 24/7 until they start on hay and
> finishing starter between
> feedings. Then move on to grain
> mix in starter increasing grain
> until they are eventually on AM&PM
> grain feedings and hay. Water 24/7

> About 3-6 months depending on time
> of year they were born turn out to
> pasture with AM&PM grain and hay
> until they are on the grass. Again
> water 24/7 This is for small time
> family farm with a few head. But
> it gives calves a good start.
> Other things to make sure of:
> their stall is dry and draft free.
> Calves can take cold but not draft
> and neither if they are damp. Make
> sure the stall drains or is
> cleaned often and has plenty of
> bedding. I start with straw and
> wood shaving and then hay as they
> move off of milk replacer. Another
> note kind of on the side. I am
> lazy. I have a well drained stall
> for calves that I do not clean
> until the calf is out. The thick
> straw and wood chips makes a base
> that later with hay allows liquids
> to drain down through. The base in
> the stall will grow to at least a
> foot deep. The bottom layer will
> start to compost in the stall.
> This actually produces some heat
> in the floor of the stall.
> (remember I am in NY and cold
> winters and young calves is a
> concern) Went the calf is put to
> pasture I clean the stall right
> out to my wife's garden. This
> makes great compost for her
> garden. So by not cleaning I get
> heat, less work and an impoved
> garden. This only works if the
> stall drains well. Also always
> clean completely between calves
> and disinfect. I hope this helps.
> Increase his water intake. Being
> 10 days old and a Holstein I
> assume he is about 110 lbs give or
> take 20lbs. I think he needs more
> then 7% of his weight in water per
> day. Mine is getting 3 gals to
> 120lbs. That is 20% of her weight
> in water each day. She needs this
> to matabolise food, grow and keep
> her digestive system in working
> order. Anything less then 10% of
> weight in water per day seems very
> low to me for a growing calf.
 
OP
A

Anonymous

> Dairy calves are a whole different
> proposition. They are removed from
> the cow at birth or within a day
> or two and bottle fed. They are
> ussually weaned at 8-10 weeks and
> turn out just fine. Now to the
> sick calf. I'ld take it's temp,
> but I'ld probably give it a shot
> of Nuflor (available from your
> vet) no matter what his temp is.
> Cattle, especially young calves
> are prone to all sorts of
> respritory problems from the
> stress of being moved, being
> weaned or removed from mom, change
> of feeds, etc. Insure you are
> feeding a high quality milk
> replacer, milk and milk
> by-products not soy.

> dun i took your advice and give 1 injection of nuflor friday and will give another sunday per vets instructions. as for my feeding ,im following instructions on purina brand nurse chow #100 NEO-OTC medicated milk replacer and purina calf startena ration wich says the ration can be started at 3 days {free choice}and they have water 24/7. i have 3 more holstein calves, within days of age as my sick calf, that are growing rapidly and filling out good so i'm afraid to change my program as adviced by R.Lanfear but i do appreciate all comments and suggestions Thank you all very much and ill see what happens?



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OP
A

Anonymous

You will probably find that Purina or any of the other large feed/milk replacer companys have a pretty good grasp on how to best raise baby calves. It may not alwasy be 100% practical in every instance, but the closer you can stay to their recommendations the better success you will usually have. Hope the Nuflor works for you, in all but one instance it didthe trick for us. The one time it didn't, nobody was ever able to figure out waht happened to the little booger. Healthy, a little off feed, gave it a shot, dead 12 hours later with black crap pouring out of his nose and mouth.

dun



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OP
A

Anonymous

> but calves by a week or two at the
> most are already chewing their
> cud. They can't get all of the
> nutrition available, but they're
> working on developing the flora
> required to digest solids. I'm
> always surprised when I first see
> a calf, some as early as 4 days,
> chewing their cud.

> dun We were told never to bucket feed a calf it goes into the wrong stomach. The calf needs to make a tube to go in the right stomach,that can only be done by nursing. Is this true?? Cindy

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OP
A

Anonymous

I've heard the same thing. We used to bucket feed and we've bottle fed and really haven't been able to tell the difference. It's about 50/50 with the dairys around here. I just don't know at what stage the groove goes away. Good question for VtheV

dun

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A

Anonymous

Where can I find this VtheV's answer to this question? I have never heard this. I have bucket and bottle fed. I prefer bucket because of easy clean up, less equipment and quick/easy start on bucket water. It has been a long time since I used bottles but I do not remember any difference in the calves. My bucket preference comes more from what I would rather do/not do then differences with calves on one or the other. I would like to find out if I have been missing something. Thanks, Rick

> I've heard the same thing. We used
> to bucket feed and we've bottle
> fed and really haven't been able
> to tell the difference. It's about
> 50/50 with the dairys around here.
> I just don't know at what stage
> the groove goes away. Good
> question for VtheV

> dun



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OP
A

Anonymous

i think this will answer some of your questions:

<A HREF="http://www3.das.psu.edu/dcn/calfmgt/311/system.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www3.das.psu.edu/dcn/calfmgt/311/system.html</A>
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Thanks!! very informative.

"Whether fed by a nipple feeder or open bucket, milk causes the esophageal groove to function until the calf is about twelve weeks old. However, some of the nonmilk proteins in milk replacers may not stimulate full closure of the esophageal groove. Incomplete closure results in less efficient digestion and absorption."

This, it seems to me is saying that it is not bucket or bottle but WHAT the calf is eating that regulates the formation of this groove. This then leads me to ask if milk is not avalible then what should we look for in milk replacers as being good or not good for the development of this groove?

> i think this will answer some of
> your questions:

>
> <A HREF="http://www3.das.psu.edu/dcn/calfmgt/311/system.html" TARGET="_blank">http://www3.das.psu.edu/dcn/calfmgt/311/system.html</A>



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OP
A

Anonymous

<A HREF="http://babcock.cals.wisc.edu/de/pdf/29_e.pdf" TARGET="_blank">http://babcock.cals.wisc.edu/de/pdf/29_e.pdf</A>
 
OP
A

Anonymous

Thank you!! Very informative and I am going to make changes to my feeding routine. They recomend 8%-10% of body wieght in milk. I am well over this. I have always shot for 15% or more. (not sure where that number came from, just kinda in my head from somewhere long ago)Also great info on what to look for and and promotion of stomach development (again something I have not really taken into account in the past) So again thank you for the info. It taught me to shut up sometimes and not just go on and on doing what you have done. Thanks again,

Rick

>
> <A HREF="http://babcock.cals.wisc.edu/de/pdf/29_e.pdf" TARGET="_blank">http://babcock.cals.wisc.edu/de/pdf/29_e.pdf</A>



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OP
A

Anonymous

> You will probably find that Purina
> or any of the other large
> feed/milk replacer companys have a
> pretty good grasp on how to best
> raise baby calves. It may not
> alwasy be 100% practical in every
> instance, but the closer you can
> stay to their recommendations the
> better success you will usually
> have. Hope the Nuflor works for
> you, in all but one instance it
> didthe trick for us. The one time
> it didn't, nobody was ever able to
> figure out waht happened to the
> little booger. Healthy, a little
> off feed, gave it a shot, dead 12
> hours later with black crap
> pouring out of his nose and mouth.

> dun calf is doing great like nothing was ever wrong . Nuflor seemed to do the trick ,eyes clear, no snot,eating replacer and feed . thank yall for your help.



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OP
A

Anonymous

After reading Dun's replies and these posts I changed my feeding routine. Two days ago my week old bull calf died. I fed him in the morning, when I returned from work at 4:00pm he was down and by 7:00 he was dead. My first "pen calf" to ever die on me. I was shocked how fast he went!!! 12 hours after his last "looked ok" feeding he was dead. He was scoury when I found him. (he was not at the morning feeding). I'm sorry but I am going back to my old routine. I may be wrong, but it has been 100% alive vs. the new routine of 1 dead in less then a week. I do not know; but I have had scoury calves before, but never lost one or had them go so bad so fast as this last one. Well, moving on. Thanks, Rick

> Thank you!! Very informative and I
> am going to make changes to my
> feeding routine. They recomend
> 8%-10% of body wieght in milk. I
> am well over this. I have always
> shot for 15% or more. (not sure
> where that number came from, just
> kinda in my head from somewhere
> long ago)Also great info on what
> to look for and and promotion of
> stomach development (again
> something I have not really taken
> into account in the past) So again
> thank you for the info. It taught
> me to shut up sometimes and not
> just go on and on doing what you
> have done. Thanks again,

> Rick



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OP
A

Anonymous

> After reading Dun's replies and
> these posts I changed my feeding
> routine. Two days ago my week old
> bull calf died. I fed him in the
> morning, when I returned from work
> at 4:00pm he was down and by 7:00
> he was dead. My first "pen
> calf" to ever die on me. I
> was shocked how fast he went!!! 12
> hours after his last "looked
> ok" feeding he was dead. He
> was scoury when I found him. (he
> was not at the morning feeding).
> I'm sorry but I am going back to
> my old routine. I may be wrong,
> but it has been 100% alive vs. the
> new routine of 1 dead in less then
> a week. I do not know; but I have
> had scoury calves before, but
> never lost one or had them go so
> bad so fast as this last one.
> Well, moving on. Thanks, Rick Rick, Was this going from bucket to bottle?? I was intrested because when I was a kid we used to bottle feed calves and they allways died. We made sure everthing was kept really clean. No sloppeness on our part. They were kept warm and draft free.We never bucket fed and so I just wondered if there was a difference in the way calfs fed bucket vs bottle.

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A

Anonymous

Cindy,

I did not switch off the bucket. I have always bucket fed calves. I also feed a lot it seemed. I was feeding my calves 1-1 1/2 gallons of milk replacer morning and night. I also do not start them on calf starter very quickly (about the 4 week). I read about rumen development and posts suggesting 1/2 gal. per feeding, and getting them onto calf starter within days, following manufactures directions. So, I did. I cut back to 1/2 gal. and offered starter to him. I do not think that this caused his troubles. I do use medicated milk replacer, so I wonder some about the reduced amount of med. he got with each feeding but... The main thing was how fast he went. I had reduced the milk replacer but he had not really gone after the starter, just a few nibbles now and then. I now feel that the reduced diet left him with less "room to play with" after the scours hit him. In short: less replacer ='ed less med. less fluid in his system and less nutrients, so that when when the scours hit he went very fast. Leaving me no time to take action. Assuming I had left him at about a gal. each feeding (which was where he was at and I was trying to get him to 1 1/2 gal. per.) He would have had more med. water and nutrients in his system giving me more time to react. I'm going back to over feeding with milk replacer for at least 3 weeks before introducing calf starter and at least 4 weeks before limiting what they will drink at each feeding. (I was making him 1 1/4 gal each feeding and he stopped at just under a gal., but I expected him to increase that to about 1 1/2 gal. within a week.) Yes, I am going back to good medicated milk replacer, as much as I can get in them, for at least the first 3 weeks from now on and leave the starter and rumen development concerns behind until they are a month old. As far as bucket vs. bottle I have not had trouble with buckets. They seem to drink more with the bucket, there is less clean up, and after a couple weeks I am hanging the bucket in their stall for the feeding and after that their water bucket goes on the same hanger and they adjust quickly. It takes some time at the beginning to get them bucket trained, but after that buckets are much easier. Maybe not as "efficient" but I have had many healthy calves happy with their head in a bucket. They also learn their bucket and will follow me where ever I go with that bucket in my hand lol.

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