Case IH
Well-known member
Chief, would you want to take your free martin to the sale barn and announce to everyone there that she was a free martin, you had better be prepared to just give her away.
Shouldnt salebarns identify "Freemartins"?
- Thread starter chiefgriz
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Caveat Emptor
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147).
Latin for "Let the buyer beware." The idea that buyers take responsibility for the condition of the items they purchase and should examine them before purchase. This is especially true for items that are not covered under a strict warranty. See, e.g. SEC v. Zandford (01-147).
norriscathy
Well-known member
When you buy a cow at the sale barn, all you're doing is buying someone else's problem!
Running Arrow Bill
Well-known member
IMO Sale Barns are in business to "move cattle through" and earn their commission. It's a business. It's a "buyer beware" business... A service to sellers. Nothing else. ;-)
>>O.K., I realize now that I got snookered when I bought what I thought was a sound holstein heifer. I spent $360 dollars for the calf, and bought feed for my brother-in-laws Holstein cow to nurse mine and his calf (also the time involved for letting them in and out of the pen to nurse ect,,).<<
Hope you didn't pay more than half the feed bill for that cow.
>>Anyhow, why are the sale barns not required to let the buyers know when the calf is a freemartin (nothing free about mine). I have only been to a few sales, but I asked the employees what the tags meant, ie.. heifer, bull, medicated ect. No one said a darn thing about the possibility of a heifer being a freemartin. I had never heard about such a thing.<<
Last time I took calves to the auction, I just dropped them off, wrote down my name and address so they knew where to send the check, and drove off. For the buyers - what you see is what you get - they don't know anymore than that. And as far as I know, unless it's a special auction, the sellers never give any info on the animals.
>>If you buy a older heifer or cow that is open, then I know what to expect. To me, that goes without saying, but to mislead someone about being a normal heifer is just plain wrong. I suppose it should also be the sellers responsibilty to inform the sale barn that the calf was a twin in a heifer/bull set. Is there any action I can take against the sale barn or the original owner. If not, what should I do to recoop as much money as possible? Sell her now, (4 months old) or keep her till she gets bigger. I am extremely bummed out over this....<<
You pay your money, you take your chances. The auction doesn't owe you anything. Neither does the person who sold that calf through the auction. Seller's responsibility to tell? Nope - to me, I pay my money, I take my chances; if I guess right, great, if not, it's my own fault and my own problem. If you hadn't heard about a freemartin yet...well, most I can say you learn through experience. You know now.
Calves at the auction don't come with papers listing their history. That's just part of the calves there - what you see is what you get.
As to selling her now or later...get out your pen and a piece of paper. Calf price. Add on feed cost. Where are you at now? what does she weigh? No sense in selling her through a dairy auction as she's big enough for an experienced person to guess if she's a freemartin or not. I've got a freemartin that's a month older than yours, and my vet and I took a look and guessed she was infertile at one or two months of age. The fellow I got her from told me she was probably a freemartin - but then I bought her twin bull calf as well, so I was prepared. LOL.
What's the price on holstein steers in your area...per pound? Now figure out what it comes out to - are you breaking even? sale price compared to initial price plus feed? For me, I'd probably be figuring 4 month old calf x $5/week equals what, $80? I'm guessing it's probably cost you more than that. plus intial cost brings you to $440. Four month old holstein calf probably isn't going to be over 400lbs, if that. I'm guessing 300-350lbs, max, unless that cow milks really well. You sell now, you might break even, wait until later, might make a little money, or - if your feed costs exceed pounds gained - you might just lose more money. Might make more sense to butcher her. Get a pen and paper out and figure it out.
Hope you didn't pay more than half the feed bill for that cow.
>>Anyhow, why are the sale barns not required to let the buyers know when the calf is a freemartin (nothing free about mine). I have only been to a few sales, but I asked the employees what the tags meant, ie.. heifer, bull, medicated ect. No one said a darn thing about the possibility of a heifer being a freemartin. I had never heard about such a thing.<<
Last time I took calves to the auction, I just dropped them off, wrote down my name and address so they knew where to send the check, and drove off. For the buyers - what you see is what you get - they don't know anymore than that. And as far as I know, unless it's a special auction, the sellers never give any info on the animals.
>>If you buy a older heifer or cow that is open, then I know what to expect. To me, that goes without saying, but to mislead someone about being a normal heifer is just plain wrong. I suppose it should also be the sellers responsibilty to inform the sale barn that the calf was a twin in a heifer/bull set. Is there any action I can take against the sale barn or the original owner. If not, what should I do to recoop as much money as possible? Sell her now, (4 months old) or keep her till she gets bigger. I am extremely bummed out over this....<<
You pay your money, you take your chances. The auction doesn't owe you anything. Neither does the person who sold that calf through the auction. Seller's responsibility to tell? Nope - to me, I pay my money, I take my chances; if I guess right, great, if not, it's my own fault and my own problem. If you hadn't heard about a freemartin yet...well, most I can say you learn through experience. You know now.
Calves at the auction don't come with papers listing their history. That's just part of the calves there - what you see is what you get.
As to selling her now or later...get out your pen and a piece of paper. Calf price. Add on feed cost. Where are you at now? what does she weigh? No sense in selling her through a dairy auction as she's big enough for an experienced person to guess if she's a freemartin or not. I've got a freemartin that's a month older than yours, and my vet and I took a look and guessed she was infertile at one or two months of age. The fellow I got her from told me she was probably a freemartin - but then I bought her twin bull calf as well, so I was prepared. LOL.
What's the price on holstein steers in your area...per pound? Now figure out what it comes out to - are you breaking even? sale price compared to initial price plus feed? For me, I'd probably be figuring 4 month old calf x $5/week equals what, $80? I'm guessing it's probably cost you more than that. plus intial cost brings you to $440. Four month old holstein calf probably isn't going to be over 400lbs, if that. I'm guessing 300-350lbs, max, unless that cow milks really well. You sell now, you might break even, wait until later, might make a little money, or - if your feed costs exceed pounds gained - you might just lose more money. Might make more sense to butcher her. Get a pen and paper out and figure it out.
We've bought cows and yearlings heifers at the sale barn on a number of occasions. Probably 1 out of 10 turns out to be a bad deal. Those are pretty good oods I think for buying totally unknown cattle. But I figured the cost of those that were bad was just the cost of doing business. It's like shooting dice, some times you win and sometimes you crapout.
dun
dun
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
norriscathy":1ywc2hrk said:
This is not a true statement how many cattlemen don't sell their cattle at the salebarn. Yes problems go through the salebarn and are sold for canners or cutters unless you don't know what your doing and buy one. Lots of reasons for good cows at the barn the old rancher dies and the kids haul his stock to the barn, droughts,hard winters etc. You just have to know cattle if you don't stay with private treaty.
norriscathy
Well-known member
Caustic Burno":coth0ch2 said:
How many of your top cows (under 10 and bred) have you run through the sale barn lately? It has been my experience that you have to be careful even at so call "dispersal sales". Odds are these cattle have already been cherry picked by neighbors, friends and relatives. The only quality animals that I have been able to accumulate are those I raised as heifers. Almost every vet will tell you not to buy replacement cows at the sale barn unless you are a VERY experienced trader.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
norriscathy":374kk4bz said:
Thank God all cattlemen don't have a screwed up thought process as this. The Auction barn has served the cattlemen in this country extremely well in providing a ready market for our product. If you don't haul to the salebarn must be a mighty small operation or selling pets.
Bama
Well-known member
Sale barns sell everthing from Canners to top of the line breeders off of someone's farm that is going out. The trick is to know which is which when they come through. One thing a novice can do is watch the guys on the front row. If they arn't bidding much somethings wrong. Buying from a barn is risky. You just have to pay a little more attention as they come in. Look them over in the short time you see them. Ears shouldn't be drooping, eyes clear, feet sound, body and muscle filled out, perky, appropriate bag, strait back, not limping, nice hair coat, correct stance, normal plumbing, not bloated, nice disposistion, no weird knots, and a host of other things I'm leaving out. Doing this in the short time that you see them is what makes or breaks your profit on them. The most money I make on cattle is directly related to purchase price.
farmer4620
Well-known member
From my thoughts and opinions and experiences here are my thoughts...Our neighbors run aroun 80 cows and bought nearly all of them through sale barns(ive gone with them to pick them up) and have some very good cattle some of the best calves around our area I dont know of them havin a single cow die in the last 3 years. The salebarn has it all but you have to be on your toes and know what your buying and it doesnt hurt to look around before the sale to know what you want. Its a great place to move cattle aslong as you are ready to bite the bullet on a bad deal if you buy anything long enough or gonna get a dud auction or not.
Case IH
Well-known member
Lots of farmers make their living buying and selling at the sale barn, most of them are their from the time the sale starts till it ends, looking for bargains and replacements and I can assure you there are some good replacements that go through the sale barn, and you definatly are taking a chance when you buy from the sale barn, we have bought cows befor that have been sewed up from having calves pulled and never realized it until they are in the trailor, just take her home feed her for a week get her looking better and back she goes, maybe you will make a $100 dollars maybe you will lose a 100. You will learn to look the cows over better next time.
BC
Well-known member
The dairy sale at Sulphur Springs checks older heifers, but I don't think you can tell on baby calves. I see freemartins marked with FM on rump.
Dairymen in this area sometimes sell surplus heifers for cash flow. The majority of these are grazing daries and they do not use up the cows like a freestall operation, so they have more than they need for replacements.
I am sorry for the trouble you went through, but some of the dairy heifer raisers tell me that they figure on a percentage of the baby calves turning out to be freemartins when bidding on heifers.
Dairymen in this area sometimes sell surplus heifers for cash flow. The majority of these are grazing daries and they do not use up the cows like a freestall operation, so they have more than they need for replacements.
I am sorry for the trouble you went through, but some of the dairy heifer raisers tell me that they figure on a percentage of the baby calves turning out to be freemartins when bidding on heifers.
norriscathy
Well-known member
Boy Burno, you sure are Caustic! You never answered my question! When is the last time you sold a top cow (bred and under 10) at the sale barn??????????? Yes, sale barns do have special sales that have some quality animals, but generally you can't find a QUALITY animal. To answer your question; we have 225 "pets" on 600 acres and TOP the Oklahoma City Sale everytime we go! I too got hit by the drought and had to ship a load of QUALITY cows to OK City. I made sure the stockyards knew what was coming (they know my cattle) so they could line up buyers. Unfortunately the cattle never made it to OK City; when the truckers loaded the cattle here yesterday they bought the whole load at $950 per head, not the $380 you paid for your "fine freckled faced cow". We do send cows to the sale barn: prolapses, hard calvers, 18 month calvers, open cows, etc! The key here is QUALITY. As so many others have said; at the sale barn it is truly "Let the buyer beware!" It's easy to buy all the problems and junk you want!!
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
There are 4 sale Barns within 30 miles of each other here. I have a favorite to sell at, and a favorite to buy at. One in particular is more of a farmer's market type sale, with almost no order buyers, they tend to get good Cattle, but as with any Barn, it's Buyer beware. The other's tend to have plenty of buyers, and more cattle being "Disposed" of, and have a lot of transit Cattle. I'll be the first to admit, the only Cows I've sent to sale, have been problems. Ones that had disposition problems, one's that raised a sorry calf, and ones that were escaping all the time. I myself have never sent a good Cow to the sale barn. They're too easy to sell to another Farm.
Caustic Burno
Well-known member
norriscathy":bns4pva2 said:
That load of yours would have probally brought 400 to 500 a head here if you could have found enough people to buy them cause they order buyers dang sure wouldn't have paid you that. On your first question during the 99 drought I hauled 27 fine cows to the salebarn none over 8 years old after a 2 year drought I had to let some go. I still remember a 1400 pound cow bringing 300 bucks and was a quality cow. But you probablly judge quality in what you pay for them where I in what they make me in profit.
During the previous drought here we destocked and hauled some very good cows to the sale barn. They didn;t bring squat because the whole area was in drought and nobody had any feed. A few folks hauled cows to KS and got more, but after the trucking bill it was about a wash. Depends on how wide spread a drought is. I feel for the folks in tx and OK. We had 3 years of drought then 2 good years and now we're back in a drought again. Not as bad as that area yet
dun
dun
Crowderfarms
Well-known member
Dun My heartfelt wishes go out to all in the OK. TX. Areas. We're dry here too. The future forecast looks dry here through March at least. We here could easily get in the shape of our fellow Cattlemen to the West of here.If it gets much worse,in the drought stricken areas, do you think we'll see a remake of the days when Hay was donated from the more fortunate areas to help?dun":2hmcusvr said:
chiefgriz
Well-known member
"A sterile or otherwise sexually imperfect female calf born as the twin of a bull calf. " It appears as though even if the heifer can concieve, she still could be considered a freemartin if some of her sexual organs were imperfect. The question is, does any heifer born twin with a bull have all the correct parts and is capable of concieving. The 90% everyone keeps bringing up just refers to the calf being sterile.
