Should you buy the name brand surfactant?

[ga.prime]

And in conclusion, is there any sort of self respecting regulatory enforcement officer out there that would seriously entertain such trivial pursuit as this?

 

[Caustic Burno]

And in conclusion, is there any sort of self respecting regulatory enforcement officer out there that would seriously entertain such trivial pursuit as this?

Some I dealt with I think would go out of their way to catch their own mother.
Almost a cult ideology of saving the world.
Do we need a watchdog IMO yes I saw what had happened to Galveston Bay through
years of non regulation and industrial dumping. To becoming one of the most
biodiverse second only to Chesapeake.
The problem become idealist with no concept of reality writing regulations
becoming a Gestapo agency that no one answers to the voters.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Why are we arguing about pennies? Surfactant is cheap. You are going to buy an alternative? That costs as much or more.

Do the right thing. Period. If you're not going to do the right thing you shouldn't be in it.

 

[greybeard]

Why are we arguing about pennies? Surfactant is cheap. You are going to buy an alternative? That costs as much or more.

Do the right thing. Period. If you're not going to do the right thing you shouldn't be in it.

Some people claim they can buy Dawn or equivilent in the super economy size for $.99 at the Dollar Store--I've never seen it that cheap anywhere. Even if the only place you could buy real surfactant was Tractor Supply, it's $18/gal=$4.50 per32 oz=1qt.
1 qt of Dawn at Walmart is $4 for 34.2 fl oz.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/t ... tant-1-gal
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dawn-Ultra-Or ... z/15018298
Big deal--I saved a whole $2. :lol:
(By golly wife--We can go to the Riviera and live like the rich and famous now--I got me a 2 dollar bill.)
just where is the Riviera anyhow--is it further than Galveston or Holly Beach?

 

[Tim/South]

I use the store bought. We buy it at the CO-OP in 2.5 gallon jugs. Took me a while to learn it was cheaper than the cheapest detergent our WallMart sold.
I also like that the CO-OP surfactant is sticky and the Wallmart detergent is not. I want the sales receipt for my records and spray log. On the latest restricted use course I completed they emphasized we were under the authority of the local health department. Those book learned city folk can be a pain. All it takes is one call and they just might show up. Times are changing.

 

[inyati13]

I will continue with my way and if I get caught I will just use my " CASH ON HAND " and deal with the consequences :lol2: If/when I get in trouble for it I will let you all know.

By admitting to it on a public forum, you could have easily increased the chances of said consequences. Be careful with what you say on the forums, especially a public forum as this one. By public forum, I mean one that you must not be registered and logged in to view. If you don't think it happens, I know people that have had the USDA show up at their home and confiscated seeds they bought from their garden. Also, people have been "caught" by posting over their limit duck hunts on forums.

MudHog: a regulatory agency might initiate an investigation based on statements made publically, but the veracity of the statements have to be proven. A citation would not be issued unless the RA has facts to support a violation. I can make a statement that I shot a bald eagle. The US Fish and Wildlife Service might initiate an investigation based on that public statement. However, they would have to establish evidence to support the violation. Then they would have to present evidence that the violation occurred to win a conviction. In the example, I, the accused, would offer the simple defense that I have never killed a bald eagle and that my statement was false.

In the example you used about ducks, getting "caught" means what? That the RA investigated or that they won a conviction? If I posted that I exceeded the limit and provided photographs, then it might lead to a conviction but even with a photograph, I could say that some of the ducks in the photo were legally shot by my hunting partner and that I said I shot them only for the purpose of bragging. I spent a career in enforcement, convictions are difficult!

 

[JWBrahman]

Why are we arguing about pennies? Surfactant is cheap. You are going to buy an alternative? That costs as much or more.

Do the right thing. Period. If you're not going to do the right thing you shouldn't be in it.

The problem with these discussions is everyone sets up a straw dummy to fight to make himself look smart/superior/????.

Thought it was implied we are talking about using 24D to spray pasture, not aquatic pests or finding the proper cationic, anionic, or nonionic surfactant to maximumize clutch disc friction while maintaining lubrication for the planetary gears in an automatic transmission.

So which detergent SPECIFICALLY reacts harmfully with 24D? One of our greater minds better call the EPA to report septic systems across the south...

Glad to have anybody visit me to test the quality of my water. We have more amphibians than a bible plague.

 

[JWBrahman]

Mudhog you better call the state police and report the LSU Agcenter. Now that you know about it "they" may come after you, too. Hahaha Just messin with you because of the photos u posted of skinny cows standing in a dirt lot.

Which is one of the main issues a lot of people have with CT. The biggest bullskitters tend to have the worst cattle, facilities, and pasture. If you think my cattle are no good and my pasture looks like heck do yourself a favor and ignore me. If your set hasn't dropped far enough to use your real name, well, we understand. Hahaha

 

[TexasBred]

I'm less concerned about using the soap as I am making my mix double strength. :lol2: Yeah I noticed it was an old article CB.

How did you come to the conclusion that 1 qt is double strength?

GB the "double strength" comment had to do with the fact that I often mix the herbicide double strength....not the surfactant.

 

[dun]

Looks like we're in another of those "accuracy, distance" contests

 

[TexasBred]

Looks like we're in another of those "accuracy, distance" contests

I'll have to drink at least two more tankards of coffee to even get out of the prelims. :lol: :lol:

 

[ChrisB]

I've been following along out of curiosity if you can indeed get in trouble for using Dawn off label. I did a bit of google searching and can't find where it is illegal. Not that I'm going to start using it, but I have a hard time believing that I couldn't if I wanted to. What's the verdict?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've been following along out of curiosity if you can indeed get in trouble for using Dawn off label. I did a bit of google searching and can't find where it is illegal. Not that I'm going to start using it, but I have a hard time believing that I couldn't if I wanted to. What's the verdict?

This all falls under CFP40 EPA regs and vary from state to state with some states having more
stringent rules than the standard.

Texas
Falls under section 12.
http://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/re ... &ch=8&rl=7

 

[Kell-inKY]

I've been following along out of curiosity if you can indeed get in trouble for using Dawn off label. I did a bit of google searching and can't find where it is illegal. Not that I'm going to start using it, but I have a hard time believing that I couldn't if I wanted to. What's the verdict?

well Chris,
apparently dumping tons and tons of chemicals that either kill all or a lot of the vegetation year after year is A-OK with the government (the very definition of harmful to vegetation). You know, that stuff that says not to touch it, get it on your skin, injest it etc.

However, mix in some surfactant that has some dyes and perfume added and you have an environmental disaster, nevermind that you have your hands in it and eventually you are putting all that dish soap in the ground anyway when you wash dishes or clothes (if you have a septic system), or it gets washed out to the river if you are on the sewer which then makes it's way to the wetlands etc.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I've been following along out of curiosity if you can indeed get in trouble for using Dawn off label. I did a bit of google searching and can't find where it is illegal. Not that I'm going to start using it, but I have a hard time believing that I couldn't if I wanted to. What's the verdict?

well Chris,
apparently dumping tons and tons of chemicals that either kill all or a lot of the vegetation year after year is A-OK with the government (the very definition of harmful to vegetation). You know, that stuff that says not to touch it, get it on your skin, injest it etc.

However, mix in some surfactant that has some dyes and perfume added and you have an environmental disaster, nevermind that you have your hands in it and eventually you are putting all that dish soap in the ground anyway when you wash dishes or clothes (if you have a septic system), or it gets washed out to the river if you are on the sewer which then makes it's way to the wetlands etc.

No what gets you in trouble is not having an MSDS and using off label.
Responsibility
It is the joint responsibility of the person in control of the crop and the applicator to ensure application complies with regulations. Spraying high volatile herbicides is prohibited when susceptible crops are within a four-mile radius.
Recordkeeping Requirements
Records kept must include: the date and time of day each application started; the name of the person for whom the application was made; the location of the land where the application was made, stated in a manner that would permit inspection by authorized parties; the regulated herbicide applied, including: product name; EPA registration number; rate of product per unit; and total volume of spray mix, dust, granules, or other materials applied per unit; the pest for which it was used; the site treated (name of crop, etc.); total acres or volume of area treated; wind direction, velocity, & air temp;

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Good grief this thread has me so jonesing to go up to the farm and spray Roundup and Crossbow willie nilly all over the place. I'm going to add some liquid dish soap just for spite!

Bring it on EPA!

 

[Caustic Burno]

Good grief this thread has me so jonesing to go up to the farm and spray Roundup and Crossbow willie nilly all over the place. I'm going to add some liquid dish soap just for spite!

Bring it on EPA!

Willy nilly is why we are having to be licensed now and keep up CEU's
Texas is going to a scan card for courses and when you finish for the day
the CEU credits are scanned immediately into the system.
No more ducking the honor system at renewal is gone.
Too many lying about going to the classes.
Know a fellow lost his license when they checked his hours hadn't been to a CEU course in
years. Now he can't buy chemicals and no one will spray his place.

 

[highgrit]

I guess I'm just a no count hobby farmer. I just pour a jug of herbicide in the tank and dump some crop oil and start spraying. If I don't kill it the on the first try, I double up on the second try. I've never calibrated or measured anything. But I do and sit through my 3 credit hours for my applicators license. I hope the feds get a search warrant first? Sky taught me all I know over the phone.

 

[skyhightree1]

I guess I'm just a no count hobby farmer. I just pour a jug of herbicide in the tank and dump some crop oil and start spraying. If I don't kill it the on the first try, I double up on the second try. I've never calibrated or measured anything. But I do and sit through my 3 credit hours for my applicators license. I hope the feds get a search warrant first? Sky taught me all I know over the phone.

:lol2: :lol2:

 

[HDRider]

Good grief this thread has me so jonesing to go up to the farm and spray Roundup and Crossbow willie nilly all over the place. I'm going to add some liquid dish soap just for spite!

Bring it on EPA!

Nilly willie?