Should I fire my book keeper?

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Jogeephus

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I just received a notice that they are going to file a tax lien on my business because they have not received a quarterly report concerning the labor tax I have to pay for employing people. Since I have not fired anyone in the last 15 years since I am not an equal opportunity employer who hires workers comp miners my tax rate is 0.003% on the first $8500 paid out. If you do the math, this works out to $2.55 per head per year and this is paid in full by the end of the first quarter of each year. The rest of the year, all other income is not taxable - under this tax/fine. So even though I don't owe any money they are threatening to put a tax lien on my business.

Since my book keeper never received the forms and since the amount owed would have been ZERO, he did not see the importance of running down paperwork that was undboubtedly lost in the mail. The arrogant fart THOUGHT he had more important things to do with his time!

Oh well. I spoke to them and was informed that if I did not pay a $65 penalty they would record a tax lien at the courthouse on my business and in effect shut me down. (Recording fees at our courthouse is around $25) I politely explained to the nice lady that I thought this was unfair since this equates to a penalty of what the total taxes would be on an employee for 25 years. I explained to her that I knew she has heard the same old story about forms being lost in the mail but if she would look at my records she would see that we have never been late, never missed a payment, never had a claim and that maybe just maybe I'm telling the truth about not receiving the forms in the mail. Afterall, stranger things have happened. Of course, she wasn't in the position to waive the fees. I asked her what this money was used for and she explained it was to pay unemployment benefits to those who are out of work.

Ok, I can understand that but you know I have paid this tax for nearly 40 years and have never drawn a dime. Never even asked for it when I could have. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm cold hearted. Maybe I'm selfish. But it seems to me that just this once they could waive the penalty since I have done nothing but give, give, give and give only to receive NOTHING in return. But no can do. Am told I can appeal it which will take God knows how much time. Not going to do it! I think I will let the system win. I think I have learned to work within the system. So what I have decided to do is to pay the penalty and lay the book keeper off for a month or so. Hopefully he will have time to reflect on the error of his ways and and realize how important this paperwork truly is - even though there is nothing to report. (Oh, I talked to my attorney and I have every legal right to do this)

Since I've never been unemployed, I really don't know if it would be better to have them hold out the taxes on the $310 a week they will be paying me or not. Also, if they take the taxes out, will this qualify me for the unearned income tax credit?

I look forward to my time off and hope to get some quality time to reflect on the importance and wisdom of bureauracracy. I can already see that I can see some benefits of working within the system instead of just complaining against it.

Or should I be forgiving and not lay myself off?
 

novatech

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Wouldn't it be nice to know how the other half lives? Then you could really appreciate not having a job and still get paid. But then of course they will double your employers rate, or yours, oh whoever. Your employer would also find out how his money is being put to good use. :lol:
Did you point out to the little lady that the bureaucracy it took to accomplish this collection was costing the taxpayer far more than what she was trying to collect? I guess it was worth it to teach you a lesson you would not soon forget.
 

Running Arrow Bill

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Yep...probably...lol.

First of all, anyone that calls themself a "bookkeeper" can be anything between having taken ONE bookkeeping course in High School to a bachelor's degree in accounting. Second, important "key" functions (such as filing timely reports, etc., with IRS) should always be closely monitored by the business...double check on the "bookkeeper".

Third, any serious & viable business operation should have a CPA FIRM (not a lonely CPA who is self-employed). Reason? Solitary CPA's can get overwhelmed with jobs, be sick or injured and in hospital, die, etc. A CPA "Firm" has more than one CPA that can take over one's account if the primary CPA becomes unavailable (ill, death, etc.).

A competent CPA in a Firm will always be on top of everything and not miss deadlines and/or consult with you as needed.

And, a final thought to anyone outsourcing their accounting functions: Always keep a photocopy of everything you hand over to that person or firm. Things get lost, misplaced, offices catch on fire, etc.

"It Cost So Little More to Go First Class" when it comes to business accounting, IRS, etc.

;-)
 
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Jogeephus

Jogeephus

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novatech":1gi77w65 said:
Wouldn't it be nice to know how the other half lives? Then you could really appreciate not having a job and still get paid. But then of course they will double your employers rate, or yours, oh whoever. Your employer would also find out how his money is being put to good use. :lol:
Did you point out to the little lady that the bureaucracy it took to accomplish this collection was costing the taxpayer far more than what she was trying to collect? I guess it was worth it to teach you a lesson you would not soon forget.

I already done the math on the worst case scenario and see no major downside as long as I'm unemployed for at least a week. A month of unemployment would be a total windfall and might teach me something and soothe my ill feelings somewhat.

I did point this out to the lady - and I will say she was very polite and professional. I also pointed out to her what I was going to do so she would understand the idiocy of this policy. I could hear the bells going off in her head after I explained what I was fixing to do to the "book keeper". I think she is going to get this waived cause I think she realized if you whip a plowing mule the mule is apt to just stop and I have reached that point. (Its not the money its the principle of the thing)

RABill, I agree with all you say. These are wise words. I do the book keeping cause I've seen two of my friends get in a lot of trouble by trusting a book keeper too much. I also agree about using a CPA firm. I learned this the hard way but I did learn it before it got too far. I might add that you also need to have a good attorney. I use several depending on the issue. I keep one on a yearly retainer so I can bounce stuff off him plus he looks after my interests in another state.
 

grannysoo

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If you lay yourself off and draw unemployment, your unemployment tax rates are sure to rise.

I've got a better solution for you.........

Go down to the county courthouse and find one of those lovely brick walls. Pour 2 teaspoons of cream into one ear and beat your head against the wall until it turns into butter.

Then, and only then, will you understand just how pointless it is to deal with "our" government. :help:
 

Jalopy

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Jo- I am not so sure you should layoff or fire your "bookkeeper" In fact a bonus may be in order
A bonus equal to a weeks wage and a paid vacation probably is more in order. BTW this could be a tax deductible expense if your bookkeeper records it correctly.

Just look at the value he has added to your life.

First he has proven that the US Postal service is fallible, things do get lost.

Second he has allowed you to make the personal acquaintance of the government,

and also he has given you the oppurtunity to consult that attorney which you keep on retainer thereby proving it as a necessary expense.

So I wouldn't just willy-nilly lay him off but look at all the positive aspects of the incident. :lol:
 
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Jogeephus

Jogeephus

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Jalopy, your wisdom impresses me! :tiphat: A golden parachute is a grand idea. Every other failure in the country seems to be getting one so why should the company deprive a lowly book keeper of what is fair - even if he is white. It would be discrimination plain and simple.

Since we have a whopping 55,000 new unemployment recipients last month I should fit right in to the system. (You don't reckon they intentionally failed to mail the form so they could ... nah... impossible. This is the government we are talking about. They'd never do that)

Jalopy":32q1r6kq said:
A bonus equal to a weeks wage and a paid vacation probably is more in order. BTW this could be a tax deductible expense if your bookkeeper records it correctly.

What about a manadatory disciplinary training seminar in Abaco? If there is any place on this earth that I know of that will purge those demons its Abaco. I'm pretty sure I could arrange this and could arrange it where no salary would be paid until the seminar was completed and then I could probably arrange to have the salary retroactive assuming the company would be willing to hire the book keeper back. The unemployment check could just be sent directly to Captain Jack's Bar as this will be the location of the training seminar.

Since I'll be firing the book keeper I'll have to run this by the accountant but I'm sure this will be OK cause if its good for Wall Street I'm sure its good for Main Street.

Now I'm wondering what other benefits I can pick up. Heck, if I'm going to get on the pony I might as well ride it till it breaks a sweat.
 

hillsdown

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Well Jo it is jmho, but I think your poor ole bookkeeper is overworked and under appreciated. It sounds like some well deserved paid R&R is in order. I mean after all one is only human.. What about a nice relaxing ski trip to Alberta, I hear the mountains are beautiful this time of year and they just got fresh powder... :lol:

After hearing about what is going on in California and the fact that the state might have to issue IOU's for it's payroll in Feb. if they don't come into some immediate cash, it sounds like you have a real gem of a "bookkeeper" compared to who the [email protected] is looking after their finances.. :cowboy:
 
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Jogeephus

Jogeephus

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HerefordSire":1ga3uqkr said:
What is the total dollar amount of the bottom line liability you are considering your decision on?

I don't fully understand your question. I don't have any liability with them other than the $65 they are penalizing me for not returning some forms which I did not receive. But its not the money it is the principal of the thing. Why can they not simply mail all the forms at one time like some of the other taxing agencies do? Is it to create jobs or just more paperwork?
 
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Jogeephus

Jogeephus

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hillsdown":3nfaohj2 said:
What about a nice relaxing ski trip to Alberta, I hear the mountains are beautiful this time of year and they just got fresh powder...

That sounds nice but I can't imagine this bloke trying to walk on ice much less ski down a mountain. :lol2: Heck, I'd probably fall down and break a leg or worse. :idea: Hey, if I did this you reckon this qualify me for a disability check? I'm seeing potential to see the world here and add years of care free living to my life. :nod:
 

hillsdown

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Jogeephus":oetuvjlt said:
hillsdown":oetuvjlt said:
What about a nice relaxing ski trip to Alberta, I hear the mountains are beautiful this time of year and they just got fresh powder...

That sounds nice but I can't imagine this bloke trying to walk on ice much less ski down a mountain. :lol2: Heck, I'd probably fall down and break a leg or worse. :idea: Hey, if I did this you reckon this qualify me for a disability check? I'm seeing potential to see the world here and add years of care free living to my life. :nod:

You could always call it a business trip,,after all you will be checking out some "timber" lumber.. :p
 
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Jogeephus

Jogeephus

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Red Bull Breeder":3kdz9ku4 said:
Need to be more hardnosed Jo that bookeeper needs to hand plant at least 5000 trees for free.

RedBull, I was looking at an environmental website the other day and they were taking donations to plant trees to save the world. This got me thinking and you came to mind. While I can't speak for you but I can speak for myself, it has been really stupid of me to plant trees for money rather than for a good cause. I mean if you think about it, at $15 per tree I could be retired by now and I'm sure you could be too. But our - or my - greed and poor stewardship of the land has prevented me from making a fortune.

But I think a more appropriate punishment will be to be swathered in coconut oil and basted on the beach on a secluded uninhabited island just north of the Queen's Reef. Deprived of beef and fed only Kalik beer would be punishment enough.

hillsdown":3kdz9ku4 said:
You could always call it a business trip,,after all you will be checking out some "timber" lumber..

But if them Canooks find out I'm an american they might tar and feather me. :shock: :nod:
 

BeefmasterB

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Just give them their forms, Jogee. Even if it's filled out with just a bunch of zero's. They live for forms. They are happy when they have their forms. And you just can't ever fight it and really win. :help:

We once got a random audit on unemployment taxes paid. Turned out we owed 25 cents. Didn't mess with it. Sure enough, we got a bill for 25 cents that included interest!!
 

Angus Cowman

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Jo my experience wasn't with a book keeper but a maintenanse supervisor
When we were done haying in the summer had a few things to fix on the disc bine he let it slide and didn't do it when it came time to hay in the fall I had to fix it before I could hayand the 2 days it took to get the parts and then the day it tokk to fix the mackine put us a week behind because they started calling for rain
I fired the guy over that but the results weren't pretty because he still had to fix the machine and wait to get the hay mowed and then bale it all himself and he got a severe cusssing from me the whole time he was fixing it and then when he was rushing to get the hy put up because the weather didn't cooperate and we missed a good week to get everything done when the weather was nice
He promised not to do that again but I actually believe it will happen again as the older he gets and the busier he gets the more he forgets things
so goodluck and just chew the Book keepers a$$ a lil and go on
 
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Jogeephus

Jogeephus

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BeefmasterB":1hmhzzpe said:
Just give them their forms, Jogee. Even if it's filled out with just a bunch of zero's. They live for forms. They are happy when they have their forms. And you just can't ever fight it and really win.

You are so right and I did this. Had to create my own form since I didn't have one but I faxed this to them and mailed the the penalty check along with a letter explaining things and requesting a waiver for the $65 in penalties. I know I can't win and I know they don't care. Its all about money. And I won't lay myself off. I'm not a consumer of tax dollars under any circumstances. But I wanted them to know that I can also use their same system to get back what is rightfully mine at an exponential cost to them. But I'm sure they don't care. Afterall its not "their" money.

A/C, I know how to fix your problem with your maintenance supervisor. You need to hire more people and give each person a specific job to do and require each one to fill out volumes of paperwork so as to justify their job. Each quarter, you can have your book keeping staff review these forms and summarize them for your inspection. They can then be filed in your fire proof vault for 7 years in case you need to refer to them. The wonder of this is tha if a belt breaks on your mower, you can refer back to the paperwork and determine why. You can then make informed decissions on how to fix the problem from ever happening in the future. If you determine it is a personel problem you can fire them or in the case of big operations or the government - you can just promote them so people will not be able to see their incompetance.
 

Jim62

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I think you should handle this the American way. The guy is obviously doing a fantastic job for you. Give him a bonus, say maybe 10 million bucks or so, and a promotion, including a hefty raise in salary. He might be better suited to be keeper of the corporate jet or something like that. That should solve the problem to everybody's satisfaction.

Poor guy. At least he meant well......... :lol:
 

HerefordSire

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Jogeephus":2tw5x06j said:
HerefordSire":2tw5x06j said:
What is the total dollar amount of the bottom line liability you are considering your decision on?

I don't fully understand your question. I don't have any liability with them other than the $65 they are penalizing me for not returning some forms which I did not receive. But its not the money it is the principal of the thing. Why can they not simply mail all the forms at one time like some of the other taxing agencies do? Is it to create jobs or just more paperwork?

If your total amount of financial liability is $65, this should allow you to place your thinking processes in line with the "principal" you seem distracted by. For example, if your liability was $10,000, the "principal" would likely be assigned a much higher priority in the grand scheme of things. Since we are talking about $65, you should be able to forget about this pretty quick after making appropriate minor adjustments and no major adjustments.
 

1982vett

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HerefordSire":2twawinp said:
If your total amount of financial liability is $65, this should allow you to place your thinking processes in line with the "principal" you seem distracted by. For example, if your liability was $10,000, the "principal" would likely be assigned a much higher priority in the grand scheme of things. Since we are talking about $65, you should be able to forget about this pretty quick after making appropriate minor adjustments and no major adjustments.

Maybe so, but that $65 could be better spent tipping a pretty, short skirted, perky waitress rather than be wasted on some blackhole bureaucrat.
 

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