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highgrit

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One persons opinion doesn't make it right. The ATA rules state no loads over 1 1/8 ounces of shot. And for good reason 1 5/8 ounces of shot at 1500fps can't be beat. It will even beat your shoulder out of place.
 

3waycross

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Good post CB. I actually met Jon a few years ago when I was shooting a lot of Sporting Clays. He is a pretty knowledgable fella and I agree with him for the most part. However I have always considered the 1oz load to be the square load for the 16ga and still do. I have heavier loads for mine and it does not shoot them better.

The best success I have had in recent years on ducks has been with lighter loads and smaller shot. Mostly 2 3/4 inch # 4's and 1 1/8 oz of steel shot. Of course this is over decoys and not pass shooting.

Don't kid yourself about one thing tho. Ole Jon is one arrogant sumbych. I am cross dominant and his suggestion to me was that I learn to shoot righthanded at the age of 54. I thanked him and told him I would rather miss a lot and be happy...
 
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Caustic Burno

Caustic Burno

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3waycross":2omqqoxb said:
Good post CB. I actually met Jon a few years ago when I was shooting a lot of Sporting Clays. He is a pretty knowledgable fella and I agree with him for the most part. However I have always considered the 1oz load to be the square load for the 16ga and still do. I have heavier loads for mine and it does not shoot them better.

The best success I have had in recent years on ducks has been with lighter loads and smaller shot. Mostly 2 3/4 inch # 4's and 1 1/8 oz of steel shot. Of course this is over decoys and not pass shooting.

Don't kid yourself about one thing tho. Ole Jon is one arrogant sumbych. I am cross dominant and his suggestion to me was that I learn to shoot righthanded at the age of 54. I thanked him and told him I would rather miss a lot and be happy...


I still prefer the 1 oz. load in the 16 and agree that is the squared load. If a shotgun was being designed from jump today it would look a lot like a 16 gauge if it was being designed for performance. The 20 gauge pipe has been moved up to an 18 gauge over the years due to the poor performance trying to shoot to heavy of loads and to big shot.
Funny on the cross dominant as so am I when I started school they made me switch from left hand to right.
I would have loved to have been able to have duck hunted with lead with today's chokes. With today's chokes like Briley you can tune one to throw" perfect pattern's". Back in the day when we were stuck with a fixed barrel with the exception of Poly or Cutt's. IMO Cutt's was the better of those two.
 

3waycross

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Caustic Burno":16fnpao4 said:
3waycross":16fnpao4 said:
Good post CB. I actually met Jon a few years ago when I was shooting a lot of Sporting Clays. He is a pretty knowledgable fella and I agree with him for the most part. However I have always considered the 1oz load to be the square load for the 16ga and still do. I have heavier loads for mine and it does not shoot them better.

The best success I have had in recent years on ducks has been with lighter loads and smaller shot. Mostly 2 3/4 inch # 4's and 1 1/8 oz of steel shot. Of course this is over decoys and not pass shooting.

Don't kid yourself about one thing tho. Ole Jon is one arrogant sumbych. I am cross dominant and his suggestion to me was that I learn to shoot righthanded at the age of 54. I thanked him and told him I would rather miss a lot and be happy...


I still prefer the 1 oz. load in the 16 and agree that is the squared load. If a shotgun was being designed from jump today it would look a lot like a 16 gauge if it was being designed for performance. The 20 gauge pipe has been moved up to an 18 gauge over the years due to the poor performance trying to shoot to heavy of loads and to big shot.
Funny on the cross dominant as so am I when I started school they made me switch from left hand to right.
I would have loved to have been able to have duck hunted with lead with today's chokes. With today's chokes like Briley you can tune one to throw" perfect pattern's". Back in the day when we were stuck with a fixed barrel with the exception of Poly or Cutt's. IMO Cutt's was the better of those two.[/quote]


I agree but it makes me sick when I see an A-5 with one on it. Especially a Sweet 16!
 
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Caustic Burno

Caustic Burno

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Yep that was an ugly sight especially the Poly. I hated to see that on a Model 12 as well but it was pretty innovative in the day, when there was some real serious shooting going on for waterfowl. Dad had 150 cypress decoy's my stars in heaven those were heavy. As much work as it was putting out that spread you dang sure wanted to heat up a shotgun barrel and fill the sack on the hunt. The Sprigs would start spiraling in out of the stratosphere coming in to that spread, thats a pretty good size duck with a large jet rammed up his ass. Don't be fooled a Canvasback has got a dang fine engine as well coming over open water to be as big a duck.
 

backhoeboogie

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The load actually goes both ways. People flock to Wal-Mart and buy the "super speed" shot shells. There's no lead in them. They ought to be really fast. :)

What most folks don't know is:

A 20 gauge was sized to divide a pound of shot into 20 shots.

A 16 gauge was sized to divide a pound of shot into 16 shots.

A 12 gauge was sized to divide a pound of shot into 12 shots.

Same for 10 gauge, 28 gauge, 8 gauge etc.

A .410 does not fit the equation. It goes by bore size.

Ya'll do the math. Next time you get a chance to look at a box of Super Speed, remember your calculations.

Great post CB.
 

Stocker Steve

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I have done the math and the pattern board work and even killed some birds from time to time. It really depends on your hunting style and the game and the time of year:

Lead Pheasants over flusher - cheap 6s if you want to practice tracking, premium 5s most of the time, premium 4s for late season
Steel small ducks over dekes - 4s over 3s if you can get them close enough.
Steel medium ducks and calm pheasants- 3s over 2s
Steel jump shooting and late season pheasants- 1s over 2s, 1's will penetrate from the back, BB is too course
 
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Caustic Burno

Caustic Burno

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Stocker Steve":2ibot3j6 said:
I have done the math and the pattern board work and even killed some birds from time to time. It really depends on your hunting style and the game and the time of year:

Lead Pheasants over flusher - cheap 6s if you want to practice tracking, premium 5s most of the time, premium 4s for late season
Steel small ducks over dekes - 4s over 3s if you can get them close enough.
Steel medium ducks and calm pheasants- 3s over 2s
Steel jump shooting and late season pheasants- 1s over 2s, 1's will penetrate from the back, BB is too course


What blows my mind and makes a lot of people have an unsucessful hunt is the difference in the same constriction choke. Buy two identical chokes from a company one will "pattern perfect" the other will have holes in it a truck could go through. Any time I buy a new choke it has to pass a 5 round pattern test at 40 yards. I have had the best luck of being true to bore and pattern out of Briley's Precision Hunter. This gets even worse in shells I pretty well stick to Winchester Super X or Federal, never had much luck with Remington. Remington used to be a fine gun/ammo maker they have gone to pot trying to compete with the budget crowd. Browning has by far the best pump on the market today as good or better than the model 12 and I own both and both are Browning designs. The original Rem 870 designed by CC Loomis was a work horse that couldn't be beat, Remington has virtually turned it into a piece of junk.
If I was in the market today for a field grade shotgun on a budget I would buy a Mossberg over a Remington Express, hands down better gun. It will work in whatever you put it through, now it will never be heirloom quality.
 

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