Shorthorns

[purecountry]

I'm full of questions today, so here goes...

A guy told me that Shorthorns ARE NOT GOOD for beef sales, because he claims they have small, flat loins due to their dairy heritage. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who makes his living trying to sell top quality cuts through restaurants and meat shops.

However, I have a hard time believing that the breed as a whole has inferior loin and ribeye measurements. Anyone have any input? Anyone have data on their crossbreds? Ultrasound data?

If you look at the Shorthorn herdbull that Diamond S posted earlier, you'd have a hard time arguing that boy has no loin in him. I don't know, tell me what ya think.

 

[purecountry]

For cryin' out loud, then I go and forget my other question.

On Shorthorn pedigrees, lots of animals have an X behind their name. Does that mean they HAVE Maine in them, or not?

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1) A guy told me that Shorthorns ARE NOT GOOD for beef sales, because he claims they have small, flat loins due to their dairy heritage. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who makes his living trying to sell top quality cuts through restaurants and meat shops.

2) However, I have a hard time believing that the breed as a whole has inferior loin and ribeye measurements. Anyone have any input? Anyone have data on their crossbreds? Ultrasound data?

1) Was this an Angus guy? :lol: Sorry, just kidding. Perhaps maybe some of the showier stuff got pretty light/flat in the loin, however Poundmaker found during their Shorthorn feed trials, that they got above average yield and above average grade on the Shorthorn and Shorthorn influence feeders. I don't have links to their study anymore, but here are links to another feedlot study:

http://www.canadianshorthorn.com/testresults.htm

2) As do I. If anyone with a good old beef shorthorn herd has this info, I'd dearly love to see it.

On the X in the registry, this means polled. An asterisk (*) behind the name means appendix, which means there is _something_ back in that animals lineage that was not purebred Shorthorn. It may simply be a non-registered Shorthorn, or it may be another breed crawled onto the woodpile. Nothing wrong with an appendix animal on a commercial herd. Chances are, the blood is so pure that it won't affect heterosis.

Rod

 

[randiliana]

I'm full of questions today, so here goes...

A guy told me that Shorthorns ARE NOT GOOD for beef sales, because he claims they have small, flat loins due to their dairy heritage. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who makes his living trying to sell top quality cuts through restaurants and meat shops.

However, I have a hard time believing that the breed as a whole has inferior loin and ribeye measurements. Anyone have any input? Anyone have data on their crossbreds? Ultrasound data?

If you look at the Shorthorn herdbull that Diamond S posted earlier, you'd have a hard time arguing that boy has no loin in him. I don't know, tell me what ya think.

We(I) are using a fair amount of shorthorn genetics in our commercial herd. These calves that we are getting out of our shorhorn x cows are just as good if not better than the ones that have no shorthorn in them. And as long as they are not roan or spotted, they are grading in with all our other calves. The roans do too, but the buyers here have a thing about color. They seem to think that if it is spotted/roan that it is Longhorn x.

Shorthorn x Angus 2 year old heifer

Shorthorn x Hereford 2 year old heifer

4 year old (red) 1/2SS x 1/2AN cow with 2 year old (black) 3/4 AN 1/4 SS 2 year old heifer. This is Mother/Daughter

 

[Bez!]

1) A guy told me that Shorthorns ARE NOT GOOD for beef sales, because he claims they have small, flat loins due to their dairy heritage. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who makes his living trying to sell top quality cuts through restaurants and meat shops.

2) However, I have a hard time believing that the breed as a whole has inferior loin and ribeye measurements. Anyone have any input? Anyone have data on their crossbreds? Ultrasound data?

1) Was this an Angus guy? :lol: Sorry, just kidding. Perhaps maybe some of the showier stuff got pretty light/flat in the loin, however Poundmaker found during their Shorthorn feed trials, that they got above average yield and above average grade on the Shorthorn and Shorthorn influence feeders. I don't have links to their study anymore, but here are links to another feedlot study:

http://www.canadianshorthorn.com/testresults.htm

2) As do I. If anyone with a good old beef shorthorn herd has this info, I'd dearly love to see it.

On the X in the registry, this means polled. An asterisk (*) behind the name means appendix, which means there is _something_ back in that animals lineage that was not purebred Shorthorn. It may simply be a non-registered Shorthorn, or it may be another breed crawled onto the woodpile. Nothing wrong with an appendix animal on a commercial herd. Chances are, the blood is so pure that it won't affect heterosis.

Rod

You know Rod - just because a breed has basically been ruined in one country does not mean the whole breed is done in.

Some of these folks just have to get out more often.

Bez!

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

You know Rod - just because a breed has basically been ruined in one country does not mean the whole breed is done in.

Some of these folks just have to get out more often.

:lol: Oh for sure, but what PureCountry is asking for is something that we Shorthorn breeders need to be able to provide. There are many pre-conceptions (poor growth, poor grading, poor musculature, etc etc etc) that us Shorthorn guys have to overcome if we want to successfully market our animals, both within Canada and the US.

Rod

 

[Coyote]

randiliana do you have any Shorthorn x heifers for sale.(this "x" means cross )

 

[Bez!]

You know Rod - just because a breed has basically been ruined in one country does not mean the whole breed is done in.

Some of these folks just have to get out more often.

:lol: Oh for sure, but what PureCountry is asking for is something that we Shorthorn breeders need to be able to provide. There are many pre-conceptions (poor growth, poor grading, poor musculature, etc etc etc) that us Shorthorn guys have to overcome if we want to successfully market our animals, both within Canada and the US.

Rod

Yeah, you are right. And to boot - I do not even raise the danged things! But I sure enough have crossed to them with great success. In fact wife is riding me to do this again for a couple of years - just as I get what we have left almost all red white faced! :lol:

In my opinion - in the case of PC - it basically boils down to regional prejudice and folks too lazy to look outside their immediate area for a decent bull.

In the vast majority of the United States the Black Angus is king or is about to become king. It is an excellent marketing ploy. But anyone with a lick of sense can tell you that there are cattle out there just as good and some of them may be better.

Where I come from - if it is not tan - well, knock 15 cents off. Where we lived in Alberta some years back it had to be a white face of some kind. Go figure.

In the end if you take the clothes off of a quality animal and put the steak on the plate - and you can accurately tell me the breed I will gladly shake your hand.

I can name a dozen excellent breeds that can get the job done - but what I look for more than anything now is attitude, eat anything and hardiness. With this I can make money on less than something that guzzles grain and needs constant attention.

Shorthorn fits into this category.

Regards,

Bez!

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1) In my opinion - in the case of PC - it basically boils down to regional prejudice and folks too lazy to look outside their immediate area for a decent bull.

2) In the vast majority of the United States the Black Angus is king or is about to become king. It is an excellent marketing ploy. But anyone with a lick of sense can tell you that there are cattle out there just as good and some of them may be better.

1) Hmmmm, I didn't take Pure's post to be anything more than a request for information. While there are many many excellent Shorthorns in Western Canada, I have also seen some junk out here that I wouldn't let within a hundred miles of my place. :lol:

2) Well the Angus guys did some excellent marketing, and its REALLY paid off. Don't get me wrong, Angus stuff is good and it would have to be to achieve the level of success it has, but thats the kind of thing us Shortie guys need if we want to get the breed back to the level of commercial success that it once enjoyed.

Rod

 

[Bez!]

I have also seen some junk out here that I wouldn't let within a hundred miles of my place. :lol:

2) Angus stuff is good and it would have to be to achieve the level of success it has, but thats the kind of thing us Shortie guys need if we want to get the breed back to the level of commercial success that it once enjoyed.

Rod

1. I figure those comments could be made on any breed.

2. Again - true for all breeds.

Regards

Bez!

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1. I figure those comments could be made on any breed.

No doubt, no doubt :lol: Heck, I've had some of it here at one time or another :lol: I think the Shorthorn breed is a little bit different in that its ruination was so very public and very total within one of the largest breeding markets in the world (the US), while the good breeders and the people who believed in the breed remained very quiet. We've got alot of work ahead of us.

Rod

 

[purecountry]

Well for the original comment made by my friend, I'm asking more b/c it caught me so off guard. I've seen dam good animals in every breed, and I've seen Shorthorns with plenty of loin and muscle expression, that were also purebreds - NO MAINE. So when this guy made his statement, it threw me b/c he's a good judge of stock, and travels alot. Maybe he just has some preconceived notion, like the one about how all folks with a Southern drawl is 'bout as inbred as a kennel fulla Dalmations.lol Kidding.

Shorthorns have worked great for us, and one day I'll go against the grain some more and throw the thickest, fleshiest loose-hided white or roan I can find on some Black Galloway cross cows, just to throw some Blue Belles. I'll tell the wife we have to keep 'em all b/c they'll just get docked at the auction.lol

Thanks for the info too. I read those test results on the Canadian website. I also went through some other ranch sites. What was the sire of your bull again Rod?

 

[dun]

Interesting comments since I'm going to a Shorthorn sale week-end after next

dun

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

I did a quick snoop for some rib eye results, and came up with a couple links:

http://www.shorthorn.org/DesktopModules ... &mid=11107

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content_li ... nttypeid=2

Oddly enough, these were US trials, so there must be SOME ok beef Shorthorns down there somewhere.

An ultrasound link:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/exten/OBI/f ... ltrasound'

I'm not sure if DFS is used by a US breeder or not, but DFS is a Canadian shorthorn breeder.

Apparently Heterosis.com has alot of Shorthorn stuff on it, but I've never had the chance to look through it all.

My bull's sire was Saskvalley Justice 3D. He traces back to a bull called Huberdale MasterCharge. If you keep tracing back, you'll find a Deerpark Improver (52) in there as well, but he was certified as a NON-TH Carrier (thankfully there was semen left that could be tested). I've noticed some people seem to run away screaming when they see Deerpark Improver, but much of the Deerpark line was certified TH-free and, IMO, good to see in the lineage of an animal.

Rod

 

[randiliana]

randiliana do you have any Shorthorn x heifers for sale.(this "x" means cross )

Nope, not right now . All my shorthorns either had bull (steer) calves last year, or got bred to Gelbveih so we sold them last fall. We should have some this fall though.

 

[VanC]

http://www.waukaru.net

 

[dun]

Any one know anything about these folks, Muridale Shorthorns?

Thanks

dun

 

[randiliana]

Any one know anything about these folks, Muridale Shorthorns?

Thanks

dun

They onbly live an hour or so away from us. We haven't seen many of their cattle, but we did go look at some 3 year old cows we were interested in buying, and they didn't impress us very much. We did notice that they had some pretty good looking cattle though. We didn't buy the 3 year olds. We also got hatching eggs from their kids.......

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Any one know anything about these folks, Muridale Shorthorns?

I've never had a chance to look at their herd, Dun, but I have seen at least a couple impressive Muridale bulls in Canadian Shorthorn Report. Saskvalley uses at least one Muridale bull, and one of his progeny were in my top 3 picks.

Rod

 

[dun]

Thanks. The only SHorthorn bull I've been able to find thqat isn't all crossed up with maine of chi is Muridale Buster 14K.
What size does their cattle run? Are these those 7 frame monsters or something more moderate that won;t generate a herd of giants?

Thanks

dun