Shorthorn x Gelbveih

[randiliana]

There was some talk about Shorthorn x Gelbveih cross cows. Here is our one. She is a first calver, and we are very pleased with her.

This is her first calf. Sired by a Red Angus bull. BW 76, born on Mar 12.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

There was some talk about Shorthorn x Gelbveih cross cows. Here is our one. She is a first calver, and we are very pleased with her.

This is her first calf. Sired by a Red Angus bull. BW 76, born on Mar 12.

randiliana- Could you be more specific as to why you are very pleased with her? To what templates or standards are you comparing her? For what reason(s) did you use that particular Shorthorn x Gelbvieh cross, and what specific EPD's and traits did you use for your selection process?

DOC HARRIS

 

[Santas and Duhram Reds]

In theory I think this would be good cross. This animal makes me question what you are using for seedstock.

 

[randiliana]

randiliana- Could you be more specific as to why you are very pleased with her? To what templates or standards are you comparing her? For what reason(s) did you use that particular Shorthorn x Gelbvieh cross, and what specific EPD's and traits did you use for your selection process?

DOC HARRIS

I am comparing her to the rest of our heifers. She is one of the top producing heifers this year, and is even out doing some of the cows. We sell by the pound, and she is definitely putting pounds on the calf.

Why did we keep her? Mostly out of curiosity. Both the Shorthorn and Gelbveih breeds are known for milk and maternal traits, and we were curious to see how they would work. Her mother in fact was NOT supposed to be bred Gelbveih, but we had trouble with the bulls that year, and ended up with all of our Shorthorn cows having Gelbveih calves. She was the only heifer out of them. She had good growth and was a reasonably well built (I am sure there are faults that you or others could point out). Her mother has a good udder, and the bull was a previous herdsire to a friend/neighbour's registered herd and had produced some pretty good females there. As for EPD's I have no idea what the sire has, and the dam was a commercial cow and has none.

Hope that covered everything.

 

[randiliana]

In theory I think this would be good cross. This animal makes me question what you are using for seedstock.

Please tell me what you see wrong with her....

 

[ollie?]

I sure like the little cow. The calf is fat but to me isn't as good as her momma. How good was the sire of the calf?

 

[Brandonm2]

The pic of the cow is NOT very flattering. I would like to see More rib, more muscle, more bone, more flesh, etc. I wonder what she would have looked like with a little more groceries during her development. However she IS in production now and I like what she has done in her first campaign. The red Angus heifer looks better than her mom. IF she bred back, put some condition on her and ride her to the sale barn for the next 14 years.

 

[randiliana]

I sure like the little cow. The calf is fat but to me isn't as good as her momma. How good was the sire of the calf?

He was just a heifer bull. Nothing too special.

 

[randiliana]

The pic of the cow is NOT very flattering. I would like to see More rib, more muscle, more bone, more flesh, etc. I wonder what she would have looked like with a little more groceries during her development. However she IS in production now and I like what she has done in her first campaign. The red Angus heifer looks better than her mom. IF she bred back, put some condition on her and ride her to the sale barn for the next 14 years.

The picture of the cow was taken in mid may. Turned out to be the only one I had of her. It is not the most flattering, and I will certainly agree she could use more bone, as for the rest, pretty is as pretty does, and we have some better looking cows that aren't producing like her. As far as development went, she was developed the same as everything else around here, on some oats and hay as a calf and then on grass or hay for the rest. I believe she is bred back.

I really like the heifer calf, and again agree that she is better than mom, but that is what we are working for. Next years calf will really tell the story, as she will be bred to one of our herdsires rather than the 'heifer' bull that she was....

 

[Brandonm2]

I am not trashing her. A 2YO heifer is going to typically lose some weight 60 days into her first lactation and a mostly grass raised heifer is going to look somewhat different than the grain reared stock we look at in the breed magazines. I think she will be more "photogenic" as a 4 year old.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

randiliana- Could you be more specific as to why you are very pleased with her? To what templates or standards are you comparing her? For what reason(s) did you use that particular Shorthorn x Gelbvieh cross, and what specific EPD's and traits did you use for your selection process?

DOC HARRIS

I am comparing her to the rest of our heifers. She is one of the top producing heifers this year, and is even out doing some of the cows. We sell by the pound, and she is definitely putting pounds on the calf.

Why did we keep her? Mostly out of curiosity. Both the Shorthorn and Gelbveih breeds are known for milk and maternal traits, and we were curious to see how they would work. Her mother in fact was NOT supposed to be bred Gelbveih, but we had trouble with the bulls that year, and ended up with all of our Shorthorn cows having Gelbveih calves. She was the only heifer out of them. She had good growth and was a reasonably well built (I am sure there are faults that you or others could point out). Her mother has a good udder, and the bull was a previous herdsire to a friend/neighbour's registered herd and had produced some pretty good females there. As for EPD's I have no idea what the sire has, and the dam was a commercial cow and has none.

Hope that covered everything.

Sure did! Thank you very much. Sometimes breeder's have very specific reasons for selections, and by hearing what lots of breeder's have in their "selection" protocols, and the reasons for specific selections, by putting them all together we can get a 'picture' of a trend, and understand a little better how certain matings nick. As far as the dam being a commercial cow and having no EPD's - - that is not really correct. She definitely has EPD's - we just don't know what they are. Every animal has Genetic Predictive Traits inherited from previous ancestors - - good, bad, or ugly! If they have not been legitimately determined and recorded, we have NO idea what they are - BUT they are there - nevertheless.

Every little bit of information leads to a little bit of additional knowledge.

DOC HARRIS

 

[randiliana]

I am not trashing her. A 2YO heifer is going to typically lose some weight 60 days into her first lactation and a mostly grass raised heifer is going to look somewhat different than the grain reared stock we look at in the breed magazines. I think she will be more "photogenic" as a 4 year old.

Didn't think you were. I just thought I should have noted that the picture of her was taken when it was. She does look better now. I would agree with you. Most animals would be pretty photogenic in the 4-6 year age range.

I do appreciate your comments 8)

 

[randiliana]

Sure did! Thank you very much. Sometimes breeder's have very specific reasons for selections, and by hearing what lots of breeder's have in their "selection" protocols, and the reasons for specific selections, by putting them all together we can get a 'picture' of a trend, and understand a little better how certain matings nick. As far as the dam being a commercial cow and having no EPD's - - that is not really correct. She definitely has EPD's - we just don't know what they are. Every animal has Genetic Predictive Traits inherited from previous ancestors - - good, bad, or ugly! If they have not been legitimately determined and recorded, we have NO idea what they are - BUT they are there - nevertheless.

Every little bit of information leads to a little bit of additional knowledge.

DOC HARRIS

Well, I can explain what we normally look for when selecting a heifer. Usually we look to select heifers that are british. We find that they fit our program better than european cattle. Usually they are smaller framed (most of our animals are about a 6). Then, we look at their performance, their mama and their conformation. Usually in that order, which doesn't mean that we will keep a calf out of a problem cow, only that we may keep a calf out of a normally poorer producing cow. Temprament is also a big thing for us. Conformation for me is not the most important thing, as long as it does not affect her foraging, calving or producing ability. In fact, it would be rather hard to keep anything if conformation was #1 ;-) . What we DO look for conformation wise is Length, Depth and Width across the back, and, I find they are very closely related to performance anyways. It would be rare to find a short, narrow animal in the top performing animals.

But, with all that said, we have quite a lot of cows in the herd that would not be considered very good conformation wise, and yet they certainly can raise a heck of a calf.

 

[dun]

I am not trashing her. A 2YO heifer is going to typically lose some weight 60 days into her first lactation and a mostly grass raised heifer is going to look somewhat different than the grain reared stock we look at in the breed magazines. I think she will be more "photogenic" as a 4 year old.

Compared to this heifer (2 year old cows) she's a butterball. If she had grain she'ld just dump it into her calf. Not the fresh crabgras that's popped up since it rained

 

[ollie?]

I sure like the little cow. The calf is fat but to me isn't as good as her momma. How good was the sire of the calf?

He was just a heifer bull. Nothing too special.

I personally think the calf is kind of plain compared to her momma. The cow is sound and balanced and has done a very good job raising a calf. Very nice udder as well. The cow looks better fronted than the calf, deeper chested and better through her pins and seems to have more low quarter. Nothing wrong with the calf but I think a better bull and this cow could really ring the bell. I like her a lot for a 2yr old.