Shorthorn-cross calves, 2 stage weaning

[Lucky_P]

We've been using some solid red polled Shorthorn sires over high-percentage Angus cows bred up from our old SimAngus base herd for the past 5-6 years. Have been well-pleased with the steers and heifers.
Got the opportunity to do a progeny-test breeding trial with our Spring-calving cows for Waukaru Shorthorns last year, comparing their new Waukaru Orion 2047 bull to his mgs, Waukaru Coppertop 464 (a bull we've been using extensively anyway).
Weaned them this week - hands-down, the best group of calves we've ever produced. Ended up with 4 steers from each bull, and I'm keeping all the heifers.

Steer weights, by sire group:
Orion: 748, 694, 692, 642
Coppertop: 551(twin), 574, 650, 654

Pretty decent, for 6 month-old calves here - on dam's milk and grass only; no creep, no feed.
Part of the deal was that Waukaru got the opportunity to buy the steers and feed them out - I'm looking forward to seeing the carcass data from this group of calves.

We did our typical two-stage weaning - putting in the 'quiet-wean' nose tabs for 4 days, then removing them and separating from the cows. Minimal bawling - except from one cow & calf who figured out how to nurse even with the tab in. I was surprised, however, to see that the calves lost an average of 40 pounds (range: 4# to 67#) over the 4 days the nose tabs were in. They regained, on average, about half the weight they lost, over the next 7 days with free-choice access to hay and about 3 lbs of DDG/calf/day.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Congratulations on the steers.

I love the details. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[cow pollinater]

Suuuure rub it in. :mrgreen:

 

[boondocks]

We've been using some solid red polled Shorthorn sires over high-percentage Angus cows bred up from our old SimAngus base herd for the past 5-6 years. Have been well-pleased with the steers and heifers. [...]
I was surprised, however, to see that the calves lost an average of 40 pounds (range: 4# to 67#) over the 4 days the nose tabs were in. They regained, on average, about half the weight they lost, over the next 7 days with free-choice access to hay and about 3 lbs of DDG/calf/day.

Lucky,
The difference in 4 day loss is pretty significant (from 4# to 67#). Curious whether you have a theory as to the big spread? Was it a bell curve (lots in the middle with a couple of outliers that lost way more or way less?)

 

[Nesikep]

Can you get some pictures of them? I might someday be interested in a SH bull again, and Solid red polled is perfect for me. Impressive weaning weights for sure

Do the nose tabs impede them from grazing?, and how many is "all" the heifers?

I'd be interested to know a bit about how the weight loss spread was too.. I have a couple that didn't stress out about weaning, and others I'm sure were much more worked up about it. In another thread I said I'd tell the buyer to go stuff it if he put in for 12% pencil shrink, without transport, yours seems to have been around 6%.

 

[Lucky_P]

Meant to take some photos while they were up in the barnlot being fed; just never got around to it; have a few fairly recent pasture photos - but usually was taking those right after a move to a new paddock, so they were hard to catch standing still... Have no idea how to post photos to this board.

Range on weight loss was pretty variable - they can graze and drink with the nose tabs in - but most spend a lot of time, at least for the first day or so - standing next to the dam; most losses were in the 30-40 lb range. Older veterinarian friend of mine suggested that most of that weight loss is probably water loss that's pretty rapidly replaced, once they get over the initial deprivation. The calf that only dropped 4 lbs probably just went along as if nothing had ever happened, and may not have been relying on his dam for all that much. Next smallest weight loss was the one calf that figured out how to nurse with the tab in - and his weight gain after separation was less than for the other calves.
Weight gains over the 7 days after separation from the dams suggest that if they'd had another week or so, they'd have been right back at their original weight. Sure makes me think that with the next group, we'll keep 'em and feed 'em for 2 weeks before hauling 'em to the salebarn.

Spring herd is small - only about 22 cows, and most of the Simmental cows are in that group - and were not included in the Shorthorn breeding trial, as they were bred SM. Got 3 nice SH-cross heifers and one freemartin, twin to the smallest steer. More in the fall group, sired by the same two bulls, as well as 3 or 4 more that were in the tank.

Several of the Waukaru bulls are available from Origen. Have used their Goldmine 2109 bull long enough that I regard him as sleep-easy heifer-safe, and don't hesitate to use him on anything here. Gold Card 5042 supposedly heifer-safe, and probably is...we've not used a lot of him, and even though he should have more growth than Goldmine, calves here have not performed as well - but it may be because of the cows we put him in.
Have been very pleased with the Coppertop 464 calves over the past few years - steers and heifers, alike. Reasonable calving ease, high maternal calving ease, good growth to yearling/weaning - and he possesses most of the tenderness & marbling gene markers.
But, the Orion 2047 calves blew the doors off of everything in this group - and we'll probably be using him again!

Have used some other SH bulls, still too early to see how their daughters are going to perform, but the performance of their steers here has not been as good, across the board, as we've gotten with the Waukaru bulls.
There are some very good Shorthorn cattle out there - and I'm convinced they bring something to the table that many commercial beef producers could take advantage of...

 

[Cibster]

We've been using some solid red polled Shorthorn sires over high-percentage Angus cows bred up from our old SimAngus base herd for the past 5-6 years.

Steer weights, by sire group:
Orion: 748, 694, 692, 642
Coppertop: 551(twin), 574, 650, 654

Those weights are impressive!! Is there any sire correlation on the dam's side between the heavier weighing steer calves and lighter ones? Do you ever weigh the cows when you wean to see what % of their body weight they are weaning off? That would be interesting to see which cows are weaning off more calf. Sounds like a pretty cool weaning system/experiment you have going on. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Lucky_P]

As it turned out this time, dams of all but one of the steers are daughters of the current walking Angus sire(537), so pretty standard background behind 'em on the dam's side.
Lightest of the Orion steers was out of an N Bar Prime Time D806 daughter - D806 has lower WW epd than the 537 bull - but this calf also had a difficult delivery(leg back), dam developed metritis and mastitis early on... so he did well to perform as well as he did - still, 642# is pretty good here.

No, have not weighed cows to compare % of body weight weaned. One cow produced twins (69# heifer, 92# bull) and weaned 1093 # of calf; she weighed 1480, back in Dec, 2 months before calving.

 

[HDRider]

Congratulations on the steers.

I love the details. Thanks for sharing them.

Me too. Pictures would sure be nice, and I didn't say a dirty word..