SHF Wonder

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Alan

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Just received my Sand Hills Farm sale catalog yesterday. I pretty impressed with Kevin's whole herd, but Wonder sure stands out, good looking bull. Just not sure if I can pull the trigger on his semen. Reeds have it for $60 per straw, 10 straw min. He's a none cert bull. Anybody with any of his calves? Any thoughts on him?
 

snake67

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Alan":2yupaozc said:
Just received my Sand Hills Farm sale catalog yesterday. I pretty impressed with Kevin's whole herd, but Wonder sure stands out, good looking bull. Just not sure if I can pull the trigger on his semen. Reeds have it for $60 per straw, 10 straw min. He's a none cert bull. Anybody with any of his calves? Any thoughts on him?

If you like him why not get a couple of straws and try him.

A few years ago I would spill more at the bar on a Friday night than the cost of a couple of those straws - now you got to work to get two beers in me in year - I got tired of pizzing all that money away on the ground.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

In closing - I would have a lot more to say if I saw the cows you would use.

Ugliest and skinniest Shorthorn bull I ever saw gave me the absolute best calves I have ever owned.

Pretty, pampered and expensive bulls make not a herd - the cows do that.

Cheers

Bez
 

Son of Butch

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Yes, WONDER looks impressive.
BUT, using 6 calves weaned per 10 straws, at $60 per straw [60 x 10 = 600] = $100 per calf weaned in semen expense.
$30 semen = $50

Accelerated genetics has 14hpo1023 REVOLUTION
Revolution's dam is a M326 daughter making her a 1/2 sister to Wonder.
Select Sires has 7hp109 REDEEM. A M326 son or 1/2 brother to Wonder.

Both Redeem & Revolution have very close to or slightly better numbers than Wonder.
So, Wonder calves would have to be worth an extra $50 at weaning just to breakeven vs either Redeem or Revolution.
Unlikely and if you believe the numbers, both should actually have a couple of bucks advantage over Wonder.

Wonder has a 10 straw min. the other 2 don't.
So, snake67's good suggestion of just trying a couple of straws only works for the other 2, not Wonder.

Do what you want (you will anyway) I'm just trying to point out the economics [a penny saved is a penny earned]
and offer [helpful???] options. :tiphat:
 
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Alan

Alan

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That was just my thoughts Butch. $60 per straw, x 10 straw min = $60. If you get 60% success you have 6 calves for $600. Out of the six lets say you get three heifers and three bulls. Now I have some decent cows, but not sales catalog quality. For me Wonder would be a herd improver, with luck I would get one bull quality bull calf, mean two steers.

So to follow what I'm saying $125 per calf, without cow maintainence cost, just to lay the calf on the ground. It's just a tough one to throw the dice on, lots of nice genetics out there for $20 per straw.

BTW, I do have a good number of 326 genetics in my herd through M326, ribeye and Red Obsidian ..... But Woder would sure fit nice on one of my Progress heifers.
 

Baldie Maker

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If you think the price is too high than why not move to a great son that brings more great cows; hometown, homegrown, or literal?
 

Herefords.US

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Son of Butch":rslfs6jp said:
Yes, WONDER looks impressive.
BUT, using 6 calves weaned per 10 straws, at $60 per straw [60 x 10 = 600] = $100 per calf weaned in semen expense.
$30 semen = $50

Accelerated genetics has 14hpo1023 REVOLUTION
Revolution's dam is a M326 daughter making her a 1/2 sister to Wonder.
Select Sires has 7hp109 REDEEM. A M326 son or 1/2 brother to Wonder.

Both Redeem & Revolution have very close to or slightly better numbers than Wonder.
So, Wonder calves would have to be worth an extra $50 at weaning just to breakeven vs either Redeem or Revolution.
Unlikely and if you believe the numbers, both should actually have a couple of bucks advantage over Wonder.

Wonder has a 10 straw min. the other 2 don't.
So, snake67's good suggestion of just trying a couple of straws only works for the other 2, not Wonder.

Do what you want (you will anyway) I'm just trying to point out the economics [a penny saved is a penny earned]
and offer [helpful???] options. :tiphat:


One thing that isn't considered here is the difference in cert cost, if Alan decides to register any of those calves. Wonder is a non-cert bull. Cert cost can make up a lot of that $50 per calf difference if you register the calves.
 

oakcreekfarms

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I find it hard to imagine you call using a bull like Wonder as "throwing the dice" . He was awesome as a calf, yearling, two year old, and now mature bull. Look at the sons he has created. I was through Kevins cattle on Monday, I truly think they have never been better. A lot of calves are out of wonder, wonder full sisters, limelight, literal, and some Kennedy (out of a wonder full sister). When kevin thinks that much of the genetics I will too. I flushed wonder to E39 (wonders dam) and I got a heifer that I hope to be able to flush down the road. I bought a wonder x Progress T148 last year. His calves are doing well this year..
 
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Alan

Alan

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First off there is not a herd of polled Herefords that I'm more impressed with then Kevin's at Sand Hills Farm and I'm very impressed with Wonder.

With that said, for a breeder like myself it is a throw of the dice. I'm sure you saw the financial breakdown in the above post. $600 to hopefully put 6 calves on the ground. Would I register every bull calf I got, probably not but maybe. Non cert bulls are not marketed for breeders such as myself, if Wonder was $30 per straw and $30 per cert than I wouldn't hesitate to put him in my tank. If I flushed a few cows then I would put him in my tank. As I said it boils down to non cert bulls are not marketed for breeders like me. That's why it's a throw of the dice for me.
 

SPH

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First off with I preface this by saying that we have not used SHF Wonder. Like his pedigree though, sired by KCF Bennett 3008 who is a SOD in the breed and EPD wise he is pretty solid, especially in the carcass traits. Would like to see a little more in the WW and MM categories but he's not terrible by any means.

As far as the non-cert comments in this thread, I think anyone that thinks a non-cert bull is not for them is a bunch of BS. The top registration sire in the Hereford breed right now is a non-cert bull in MSU TCF Revolution 4R and as a breeder that uses him heavily in our AI program his calves have been the top of our calf crops hands down and if you follow sales his calves sell well too. I wish more breeders would go the non-cert route, if you have a good bull then put him out there to be used as a non-cert AI sire and prove it. Smaller breeders like us will only register a calf by a certificate AI sire if we are retaining it as a replacement or good enough to sell. And there lies another issue with certs because if the breeder is not happy with the calf they got and doesn't register it then chances are data is not being reported back which is not negatively affecting that sire. The biggest flaws with breed EPDs are that breeders either don't report data back or they "fudge" the data they report so it does not accurately reflect the true performance.
 

JWBrahman

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snake67 If you like him why not get a couple of straws and try him. A few years ago I would spill more at the bar on a Friday night than the cost of a couple of those straws - now you got to work to get two beers in me in year - I got tired of pizzing all that money away on the ground. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. [u:3l5u0cfd said:
In closing - I would have a lot more to say if I saw the cows you would use. [/u]Ugliest and skinniest Shorthorn bull I ever saw gave me the absolute best calves I have ever owned.

Pretty, pampered and expensive bulls make not a herd - the cows do that.

Cheers

Bez


One thing missing from these discussions is the photos. I could tell you my calves are the greatest to ever eat grass but unless the photos tend to agree it is a worthless assertion. When Aaron was asking opinions it was relatively easy to look at his website, look at the bulls he posted, then make an educated guess about the progeny. There are some big talkers on the internet who have crazy looking herds when you peak at ranchers.net...
 
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Alan

Alan

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SPH, I've been having trouble with CT today, may be a storm system blowing through. But there's a lot of difference between a $25 straw and a $60 straw when AI'ing a herd. I do have revolution in my tank and have used him. I put him in my tank for $18 a straw. I don't want to pay for a cert up front if I know I'm paying it up front, at $18 or $25 I don't feel I'm prepaying, it's a bonus.
 

shadyhollownj

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Heres a few thoughts.

Redeem 30 straw/ 100 a cert so hes out for you if Wonder is too expensive. I have calves dropping now from him and they look good. No pigment and not small as far as birthweight. 94 and 90lb heifers.

If it was me I would try Limelight, Kennedy, or Literal.

Also how can you say they are 50 per calf and wonder is 100? If you are AI for registered calves how can you not take into account the certs. So wonder would be 100 and they would be 90. Whenever you are paying its still coming out of your pocket. Even if it was 30 bucks thats nothing for registered calves. If you are raising commercial then it would be.

On a side note anyone on here going to the sale. I booked my trip weeks ago.
 

alexfarms

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oakcreekfarms":3q70dc3b said:
I find it hard to imagine you call using a bull like Wonder as "throwing the dice" . He was awesome as a calf, yearling, two year old, and now mature bull. Look at the sons he has created. I was through Kevins cattle on Monday, I truly think they have never been better. A lot of calves are out of wonder, wonder full sisters, limelight, literal, and some Kennedy (out of a wonder full sister). When kevin thinks that much of the genetics I will too. I flushed wonder to E39 (wonders dam) and I got a heifer that I hope to be able to flush down the road. I bought a wonder x Progress T148 last year. His calves are doing well this year..


Will Wonder be at Sandhills on sale day this year?
 
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Alan

Alan

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I really like wonder, but I'm not pulling the trigger for $60 per straw. I have spoken with Kevin a couple of times and bought M326 semen directly from him. I also have Rib Eye and Red Obsidian in my tank I have Progress in my tank. I have plenty of SHF genetics and bulls, my problem with wonder is the price more than being a non cert bull. I'm sure having plenty of 326 blood in my herd sways my mind some. I have some Harland and 3027 semen I will use the year, if I add a bull to my tank it will probably be 719T and some more Progress. I think my best looking bred heifer is a progress daughter, I would love to have some more like her. My Rib Eye girls look good also.
 

oakcreekfarms

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Are you saying that you are willing to spend $35 on semen, but $60 is too much? I would assume that you would only use a bull AI if you thought he was going to move your herd forward. My point was that I can't believe you aren't willing to spend $300 or so dollars to attempt to accomplish that.

Regardless of which bull you choose
 
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Alan

Alan

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oakcreekfarms":1tikvhpg said:
Are you saying that you are willing to spend $35 on semen, but $60 is too much? I would assume that you would only use a bull AI if you thought he was going to move your herd forward. My point was that I can't believe you aren't willing to spend $300 or so dollars to attempt to accomplish that.

Regardless of which bull you choose

This is a good debate on my end, so with that in mind, I don't know where $35 came in, maybe 719 went up, or I just missed it, I haven't looked. I have plenty of good bulls in my tank. But yes $60 per straw is too much, cert or not for my operation. Redeem was mention at $30 per straw and $100 per cert, I wouldn't count that bull out on price. If I got a really nice looking heifer than I would pop the $100 without a problem. I have improved my herd by many folds using M326 and sons. Not so much about certs as price, I have revolution in the tank at a decent price.
 

SPH

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Genex website has 719T as $20 a straw, not sure what his cert price is but heard nothing but good things about that bull.

Anyone that is breeding AI to a Hereford bull that is not breeding Revolution at $25 a straw as a non-cert right now is missing out. I'll try to post some pictures this week it time allows but we've have some great looking calves out of him. We added Hyalite On Target 936 to the tank this summer too who is another non-cert AI sire and if you followed the Rausch sale his sons topped their sale. We bred our top Revolution heifer from 2012 to 936 and are pretty pleased with the heifer calf we got from that match.
 

Hereford76

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SPH":2p9z34aa said:
Genex website has 719T as $20 a straw, not sure what his cert price is but heard nothing but good things about that bull.

Anyone that is breeding AI to a Hereford bull that is not breeding Revolution at $25 a straw as a non-cert right now is missing out. I'll try to post some pictures this week it time allows but we've have some great looking calves out of him. We added Hyalite On Target 936 to the tank this summer too who is another non-cert AI sire and if you followed the Rausch sale his sons topped their sale. We bred our top Revolution heifer from 2012 to 936 and are pretty pleased with the heifer calf we got from that match.

You said Hereford bull... So how would anyone be missing out?
 
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