Share EPD expertise on a black bull yearling?

[Gators Rule]

For those experts on the topic of EPDs, I was at a local county fair, and saw a very nice looking 13 month old PB Simmental bull, and I can't say I have seen a young bull who has more eye appeal than this young fellow. Lots of question marks on his EPDs though. I would like to get some input from the gallery on this. Especially on the CE, BW, Milk, and DOC...

 

[Gators Rule]

not sure why only a thumbnail is showing...

 

[Till-Hill]

not sure why only a thumbnail is showing...

Registration number would be more helpful that just list of his numbers

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The only problem I can see with those numbers is the DOC being at the very bottom.
Since he's PB, and I guess you would be looking at keeping replacement, the cow's numbers would weigh pretty heavy for me.

Do you know his actual BW?
What's his pedigree like?

 

[Son of Butch]

epd accuracy from .16 - .27 = epds of little value
docility 1.8 is in bottom 1% for the breed and would make him a no go for me, no matter how good looking he is, until at least 2-3 calf crops have been evaluated.

 

[BFE]

I'm by no means an expert, but the CE and BW look acceptable, good growth, good carcass traits. The red flag is that docility. How did he act? I would be interested to see his pedigree, if you can post it.

 

[Bright Raven]

Docility is a must! He is in the 99% for the breed. Ouch!

In my experience, docility has held more true for me than any other EPD. His offspring are going to be knot heads.

 

[Gators Rule]

I know more info is necessary to make an accurate and objective summary of his EPDs. The yearling had great manners, and the dam's disposition was excellent. The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

image uploading

so this brings us to his sire...



FYI...the reason I haven't posted the yearling's, nor the dam's registration info, is that both are registered under a teenage girl's name and registration number, and being the father of two daughters, I don't want to put their info out on the internet.

 

[FlyingLSimmentals]

Looks like Sire might be stubborn, wild, nervous and crazy.

 

[Lazy M]

I know more info is necessary to make an accurate and objective summary of his EPDs. The yearling had great manners, and the dam's disposition was excellent. The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

image uploading

so this brings us to his sire...



FYI...the reason I haven't posted the yearling's, nor the dam's registration info, is that both are registered under a teenage girl's name and registration number, and being the father of two daughters, I don't want to put their info out on the internet.

I think Firesweep had indicated that she had used and was familiar with the sire, Prime Beef. Hopefully she'll contribute. ABS has a son of Prime Beef that I considered using but his Doc scores are awful too.

 

[Till-Hill]

I know more info is necessary to make an accurate and objective summary of his EPDs. The yearling had great manners, and the dam's disposition was excellent. The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

image uploading

so this brings us to his sire...



FYI...the reason I haven't posted the yearling's, nor the dam's registration info, is that both are registered under a teenage girl's name and registration number, and being the father of two daughters, I don't want to put their info out on the internet.

Understand, well kind of. I found the bull from his birthdate off his sires registered offspring.
61# BW lowest recorded weight of that cows 4 calves she has recorded. If bull is not smokey I would buy him. Nice pedigree, only 3 shots of Legacy. Grand dam only recorded 3 calves in 6 years and skipped a year in between also...... Always makes me question if they were duds, did they die, etc.
I did not realize Prime Beef and his sire Beef King were terrible on DOC. I'm finding tho in my little herd red sires to improve at least the DOC epd is hard. I will say my reds are easier to handle tho.

I've been around some Prime Beef's never noticed any smoke or fire I guess.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Got a cow here with a Doc of 1 the grand babies sit on her back. I don't put much faith in Doc # unless the animal shows its true.

 

[Son of Butch]

The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

I don't believe in making excuses... his DOC is bottom 1%
I've seen high priced sons and daughters of Secretariat that couldn't run a lick.

p.s.
IF he had a teenage girl as a 2nd mother a lot of what you're seeing is management not real world genetics.

 

[Gators Rule]

The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

p.s.
IF he had a teenage girl as a 2nd mother a lot of what you're seeing is management not real world genetics.

not sure I understand. showing outwardly gentle because of the teenager?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

That cow of mine has never had a crazy calf by any of the different bulls she has been bred to. The calf your looking at Gator has got a bad number because of 1 ancestor just like the cow I have. Gator I bet you can guess what bull she goes back to.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

p.s.
IF he had a teenage girl as a 2nd mother a lot of what you're seeing is management not real world genetics.

not sure I understand. showing outwardly gentle because of the teenager?

I think what SonOfButch is referring to would be how he was raised/fed etc. Especially the fed part. If the bull is/was a "fair project".

I could be wrong.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

If its crazy all the feed in the world won't keep it for showing at times.

 

[Son of Butch]

The dams DOC EPD is actually in the top 10% of the breed.

p.s.
IF he had a teenage girl as a 2nd mother a lot of what you're seeing is management not real world genetics.

not sure I understand. showing outwardly gentle because of the teenager?

i'm guessing he's probably close to being a hand raised show calf with every possible advantage given to him his entire life over his brothers/sisters/herdmates.

 

[Gators Rule]

Maybe so. I had two bat crazy show animals, one a limo steer in mid 70's, and he cleared a head high cow pen wood fence on his first day and never improved disposition wise. Would kick your teeth to the moon. He was a class winner, and won showmanship and grooming (groomed in a squeeze chute..LOL..). Never saw hooves move that fast. Second was a beefmaster bull that dined on any canine who strayed too close.

Red Bull, I hear ALL limos are bat crazy. Though we've probably had 150-200 different limo's in the pasture over the years, and that big butted red steer was the only one that would snort at you. He wasn't born here though.

 

[Gators Rule]

p.s.
IF he had a teenage girl as a 2nd mother a lot of what you're seeing is management not real world genetics.

not sure I understand. showing outwardly gentle because of the teenager?

i'm guessing he's probably close to being a hand raised show calf with every possible advantage given to him his entire life over his brothers/sisters/herdmates.

Butch, I get what you're saying and that could be correct. She may have loved the bad attitude out of him. I'm gonna go look at him tomorrow and get around him more.