Seed Stock: What is you agenda?

[plumber_greg]

Why seed fescue every year, James.
My farm was all fescue from neglect until I began building the ground up with rotational grazing, overseeing, rolling out bales, mowing and fertilization.
Now all brom, Timothy, clover, birdsfoot, nearly no fescue.
Fescue managed right can have its pluses, and the pluses are good, but the good of the other outweighs it.
Here on my place, the fescue is on the more marginal ground, harder to build up the soil there, maybe?
What's your thoughts? Thanks GS

 

[Bright Raven]

Why seed fescue every year, James.
My farm was all fescue from neglect until I began building the ground up with rotational grazing, overseeing, rolling out bales, mowing and fertilization.
Now all brom, Timothy, clover, birdsfoot, nearly no fescue.
Fescue managed right can have its pluses, and the pluses are good, but the good of the other outweighs it.
Here on my place, the fescue is on the more marginal ground, harder to build up the soil there, maybe?
What's your thoughts? Thanks GS

When I was over at Branded, his forage was fairly diverse.

I have managed about like you have. When I bought the farm, it was a mess. I renovated 70 percent of the pasture on the farm by pushing off the trees, bushes, and briers. Then I graded and seeded with a diverse pasture mix. That was 10 years ago. Gradually, fescue has come back and now dominates most of the farm but the forage remains fairly diverse.

 

[Ky hills]

Fescue is our dominant grass, it thrives well here and will grow and maintain in areas that would just be weeds otherwise. My theory has always been to ideally have a variety of other forages. We usually have a good amount of white clover that seems to thrive as well. When I sow seed usually it is a mix of red clover, orchard grass, sometimes timothy especially in a field that will be cut for hay. I have sown lespedeza in the pastures at times. There are some times that I think it necessary to sow fescue and bluegrass, a few years back after an extremely dry time, I thought it might be beneficial to sow those in case a lot of it had been killed out.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Why seed fescue every year, James.
My farm was all fescue from neglect until I began building the ground up with rotational grazing, overseeing, rolling out bales, mowing and fertilization.
Now all brom, Timothy, clover, birdsfoot, nearly no fescue.
Fescue managed right can have its pluses, and the pluses are good, but the good of the other outweighs it.
Here on my place, the fescue is on the more marginal ground, harder to build up the soil there, maybe?
What's your thoughts? Thanks GS

I agree with you.

It's the low endophyte variety, and it is already mixed in the bag with the other seeds. I would not seed it otherwise. I buy a pre mixed pasture mix from Southern States

It's also a low percentage of the overall mix. I think less than 5%

 

[CattleMan1920]

Fescue is our dominant grass, it thrives well here and will grow and maintain in areas that would just be weeds otherwise. My theory has always been to ideally have a variety of other forages. We usually have a good amount of white clover that seems to thrive as well. When I sow seed usually it is a mix of red clover, orchard grass, sometimes timothy especially in a field that will be cut for hay. I have sown lespedeza in the pastures at times. There are some times that I think it necessary to sow fescue and bluegrass, a few years back after an extremely dry time, I thought it might be beneficial to sow those in case a lot of it had been killed out.

I agree with all you said. The fields that I sowed seed on this spring had been trashed over the winter, but due to the seed and the rain, they came back nicely.

 

[Ky hills]

Fescue is our dominant grass, it thrives well here and will grow and maintain in areas that would just be weeds otherwise. My theory has always been to ideally have a variety of other forages. We usually have a good amount of white clover that seems to thrive as well. When I sow seed usually it is a mix of red clover, orchard grass, sometimes timothy especially in a field that will be cut for hay. I have sown lespedeza in the pastures at times. There are some times that I think it necessary to sow fescue and bluegrass, a few years back after an extremely dry time, I thought it might be beneficial to sow those in case a lot of it had been killed out.

I agree with all you said. The fields that I sowed seed on this spring had been trashed over the winter, but due to the seed and the rain, they came back nicely.

Glad it came back, sometimes it seems what we sow shows fairly quick and sometimes not. I think this was a year that sowing fescue would have been justified. The hills were in pretty rough shape coming out of such a muddy winter.

 

[Ebenezer]

Profit per cow or profit per acre must also include the costs of things like AI work, labor, semen, mowing, tractors, hay equipment, hay, feed, seed, taxes, rent, supplies, ... so a fertile spot on the farm does not equal 100% profit from the advantages of the soils in that spot. Just saying.

You are correct on that, but assuming I did nothing and instead chose to purchase more land instead, which would be more cost effective? Land around here is approaching $5000 an acre or more. I haven't seen too much land that looked amazing without effort, mowing, seeding, etc...

If land around you is appreciating, regardless of current prices, and if you notice how folks successfully retire out of the cattle business, the best investment is in land and the worst investment will be the expenses for the cattle, equipment, toys and the upkeep. Just the cold hard facts. You flaunt all of your activities here and so much seems to be for show, prestige, promotion, ego and maybe even towards a hobby farm rather than a working farm. I do not know of anyone mowing, seeding and dragging anything repeatedly other than their yard or bragging that one spot on the farm is Eden. Everybody has a better field, a river bottom or something like that that. So what? Just last winter you and BR were arguing on who had the wettest and most sloping land. Now it is the greatest places. Seems to be a lot of talk and odd activities to be raising a few cows with your parents.

 

[JMER1533]

What Ebeneezer said (quoted below) is basically what drives me and my strategy for seedstock.

"If land around you is appreciating, regardless of current prices, and if you notice how folks successfully retire out of the cattle business, the best investment is in land and the worst investment will be the expenses for the cattle, equipment, toys and the upkeep. Just the cold hard facts. "

 

[CattleMan1920]

Profit per cow or profit per acre must also include the costs of things like AI work, labor, semen, mowing, tractors, hay equipment, hay, feed, seed, taxes, rent, supplies, ... so a fertile spot on the farm does not equal 100% profit from the advantages of the soils in that spot. Just saying.

You are correct on that, but assuming I did nothing and instead chose to purchase more land instead, which would be more cost effective? Land around here is approaching $5000 an acre or more. I haven't seen too much land that looked amazing without effort, mowing, seeding, etc...

If land around you is appreciating, regardless of current prices, and if you notice how folks successfully retire out of the cattle business, the best investment is in land and the worst investment will be the expenses for the cattle, equipment, toys and the upkeep. Just the cold hard facts. You flaunt all of your activities here and so much seems to be for show, prestige, promotion, ego and maybe even towards a hobby farm rather than a working farm. I do not know of anyone mowing, seeding and dragging anything repeatedly other than their yard or bragging that one spot on the farm is Eden. Everybody has a better field, a river bottom or something like that that. So what? Just last winter you and BR were arguing on who had the wettest and most sloping land. Now it is the greatest places. Seems to be a lot of talk and odd activities to be raising a few cows with your parents.

I use that "Eden" as a place to hold groups very close to the working facilities so I can AI them. After they are AI'd and successfully go 60 days with the pregnancy holding, I do two Biopryn tests, one at 28 days and one at 60 days, THEN they head out to less manicured pastures. Does that clear things up for you?

Also if i were solely about making money, I would stay on a phone or laptop and trade S&P 500 futures or treasury futures all day. Not much real estate or capital intensive requirements on that plan.

Or you could have bought Bitcoin a few months ago and nearly tripled your money, exited and taken a vacation for a few years

The possibilities are endless.

As for land improvement are you suggesting that I purchase land, never touch it, let it grow up like a jungle and just bunker down until I can sell it for more than my acquisition cost?

 

[Ebenezer]

You are correct on that, but assuming I did nothing and instead chose to purchase more land instead, which would be more cost effective? Land around here is approaching $5000 an acre or more. I haven't seen too much land that looked amazing without effort, mowing, seeding, etc...

If land around you is appreciating, regardless of current prices, and if you notice how folks successfully retire out of the cattle business, the best investment is in land and the worst investment will be the expenses for the cattle, equipment, toys and the upkeep. Just the cold hard facts. You flaunt all of your activities here and so much seems to be for show, prestige, promotion, ego and maybe even towards a hobby farm rather than a working farm. I do not know of anyone mowing, seeding and dragging anything repeatedly other than their yard or bragging that one spot on the farm is Eden. Everybody has a better field, a river bottom or something like that that. So what? Just last winter you and BR were arguing on who had the wettest and most sloping land. Now it is the greatest places. Seems to be a lot of talk and odd activities to be raising a few cows with your parents.

I use that "Eden" as a place to hold groups very close to the working facilities so I can AI them. After they are AI'd and successfully go 60 days with the pregnancy holding, I do two Biopryn tests, one at 28 days and one at 60 days, THEN they head out to less manicured pastures. Does that clear things up for you? I never was unclear. You were the one blowing smoke about it.

Also if i were solely about making money, I would stay on a phone or laptop and trade S&P 500 futures or treasury futures all day. Not much real estate or capital intensive requirements on that plan. Glad that you recognize that fact. No wonder you do not want to sell females, can incur high expenses and over price your bulls out of the local market. It's sort of a gentleman's farm with the family support and the real job pays the bills?

Or you could have bought Bitcoin a few months ago and nearly tripled your money, exited and taken a vacation for a few years If wishes were wings, toads would not bump their butt on every jump.

The possibilities are endless. Maybe so. But appreciating land assets that can be used for your hobby.

As for land improvement are you suggesting that I purchase land, never touch it, let it grow up like a jungle and just bunker down until I can sell it for more than my acquisition cost? Or buy some of your own instead of blowing smoke here while Daddy provides the cows and the farm.

 

[CattleMan1920]

If land around you is appreciating, regardless of current prices, and if you notice how folks successfully retire out of the cattle business, the best investment is in land and the worst investment will be the expenses for the cattle, equipment, toys and the upkeep. Just the cold hard facts. You flaunt all of your activities here and so much seems to be for show, prestige, promotion, ego and maybe even towards a hobby farm rather than a working farm. I do not know of anyone mowing, seeding and dragging anything repeatedly other than their yard or bragging that one spot on the farm is Eden. Everybody has a better field, a river bottom or something like that that. So what? Just last winter you and BR were arguing on who had the wettest and most sloping land. Now it is the greatest places. Seems to be a lot of talk and odd activities to be raising a few cows with your parents.

I use that "Eden" as a place to hold groups very close to the working facilities so I can AI them. After they are AI'd and successfully go 60 days with the pregnancy holding, I do two Biopryn tests, one at 28 days and one at 60 days, THEN they head out to less manicured pastures. Does that clear things up for you? I never was unclear. You were the one blowing smoke about it.

Also if i were solely about making money, I would stay on a phone or laptop and trade S&P 500 futures or treasury futures all day. Not much real estate or capital intensive requirements on that plan. Glad that you recognize that fact. No wonder you do not want to sell females, can incur high expenses and over price your bulls out of the local market. It's sort of a gentleman's farm with the family support and the real job pays the bills?

Or you could have bought Bitcoin a few months ago and nearly tripled your money, exited and taken a vacation for a few years If wishes were wings, toads would not bump their butt on every jump.

The possibilities are endless. Maybe so. But appreciating land assets that can be used for your hobby.

As for land improvement are you suggesting that I purchase land, never touch it, let it grow up like a jungle and just bunker down until I can sell it for more than my acquisition cost? Or buy some of your own instead of blowing smoke here while Daddy provides the cows and the farm.

Do you know Daddy's story? It's VASTLY less glamorous than you may imagine.

Also, since the farm was acquired in the 1840's lots of "Daddy's" were involved. He just happened to be a highly educated Daddy that understood cattle breeding at a whole other level.

Did you know that an Angus operation very close to me that everyone holds in high regard is a result of a "Daddy" that put them on the map?

It's pretty common around here.

When you see a sales catalog that says "5th Generation cattleman" does your face curl? That means "Daddy" was involved.

This conversation is so infantile!!!

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

My father hated cows. Grew up on a dairy and when he left home for college he never looked back. He couldn't believe I took an interest in beef cattle in 2011.

 

[CattleMan1920]

My father hated cows. Grew up on a dairy and when he left home for college he never looked back. He couldn't believe I took an interest in beef cattle in 2011.

There are cattle, and then there are CATTLE! You made a good move.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm a seedstock operation. My agenda is to make a living with my cows. They are managed like a good commercial herd. Eat grass in the summer (rotational grazing) and good quality hay in the winter. The only cattle that get grain are my show string and my weaned heifers. Replacement weaned heifers get 5#/hd/day of whole shell corn thru the winter until they have been bred and my herd is turned out to spring pastures. They never get on a grain ration again - unless they are chosen to be in the show string.
Yes, I show cattle. I do not believe in getting them fat. On the contrary, I am super critical of getting them too fat. My "show" cattle are expected to be pasture COWS the rest of their lives.
Having said all that - I have a show animal that won all over last year as a weaned calf. She came through winter FAT. Obviously, she got more than her fair share. We brought her in for showing this year, but ended up turning her out on pasture with the cows for a few weeks. Obviously, didn't need to get into show condition!