Scrotal size

[townfarmer]

Another dumbass beginner question I'm afraid. I was talking to a stud cattle breeder this week about his upcoming bull sale. He commented that a lot of his buyers that come from out west don't want their bulls with an overly large scrotum or a scrotum hanging too low. Apparantly on rough country with logs, stick and scrub it increases the risk of injury. Just wondering if this is a widely held opinion that it is possible to have too much of a good thing? Would the hereford scrotum below be considered "safer" than the scrotum on the Blonde bull?

Thanks for your help. I'm always keen to learn from people's experiences and knowledge.

Andrew

 

[KNERSIE]

Yes on both accounts, avoid extremes at all times in all aspects of breeding. The scrotal attachment has a correlation to udder attachment, so not only will a strong attachment mean better thermostatic control and less chance of the bull stepping on himself or being stepped on, but it may also have an influence on the productive life of its daughters.

I believe the optimum is between 36 and 40 cm yearling SC.

 

[townfarmer]

so not only will a strong attachment mean better thermostatic control

Better temperature control for semen?

I believe the optimum is between 36 and 40 cm yearling SC.

What does that end being in a mature bull?

it may also have an influence on the productive life of its daughters.

A better attached scrotum will influence the udder quality of that bull's female progeny?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. There's more to bull selection than I ever imagined.

Andrew

 

[KNERSIE]

so not only will a strong attachment mean better thermostatic control

Better temperature control for semen?
Yes

I believe the optimum is between 36 and 40 cm yearling SC.

What does that end being in a mature bull?
That's a good question, I'd guess between 40 and 45cm

it may also have an influence on the productive life of its daughters.

A better attached scrotum will influence the udder quality of that bull's female progeny?
Yes, or rather poor udder attachment often results in twisted or very unsymmetrical scrotums in the cow's male progeny. The opposite would also apply

Sorry for the barrage of questions. There's more to bull selection than I ever imagined.

Andrew

 

[townfarmer]

Thanks Knersie for that informative response (as always).

Oh and congrats on the Boks beating the Wallabies again :cry2:

 

[Frankie]

In hot weather, the bull's testicles hang lower than in cold weather. That's to keep the sperm as cool as possible. In winter, they're pulled up close to keep them warmer. So don't judge these bulls just by the photos. Here's a link to what appears to be a well written article:

http://www.charolais.co.za/files/inport ... ection.pdf

 

[KNERSIE]

In hot weather, the bull's testicles hang lower than in cold weather. That's to keep the sperm as cool as possible. In winter, they're pulled up close to keep them warmer. So don't judge these bulls just by the photos. Here's a link to what appears to be a well written article:

http://www.charolais.co.za/files/inport ... ection.pdf

Care to rephrase that before the peanut gallery hits on you?

I am pretty sure both Townfarmer and I understand the purpose of testicals hanging below the body.

 

[Frankie]

In hot weather, the bull's testicles hang lower than in cold weather. That's to keep the sperm as cool as possible. In winter, they're pulled up close to keep them warmer. So don't judge these bulls just by the photos. Here's a link to what appears to be a well written article:

http://www.charolais.co.za/files/inport ... ection.pdf

Care to rephrase that before the peanut gallery hits on you?

Not especially. The "peanut gallery" doesn't bother me.

I am pretty sure both Townfarmer and I understand the purpose of testicals hanging below the body.

Well if you two understand, what else matters? :roll: That's why I posted the link: just in case someone actually wanted to learn something.

 

[KNERSIE]

Does poor scrotal attachment and elongated scrotums not bother you?

 

[daniel.carver]

VERY INFORMATIVE, some of are still learning, thanks Dan

 

[Willow Springs]

Research has shown that there is very little fertility improvement after a bull reaches 38 cm circumference. As pointed out earlier extremely large testicles (or porrly supported) can create fertility problems through injury, thermoregulation, etc. Also young bulls with very large testicles sometimes have poorer semen quality due to testicular immaturity. But you also have to balance that with getting early maturing, fertile females. I like to have 36-38 cm at a year of age. However if the bull is only for terminal cross I don't see a problem with 38 cm as an older bull. In the end libido and how a bull breeds will have as much of an effect on pregnancy rates.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Breeding for optimum; something about destination rather than direction. When you are where you want to be, do not move further in the same direction, because then you start to leave that destination, even if the direction is the same all the time!

Apart from that long thing, The blonde bull is great

 

[dun]

Breeding for optimum; something about destination rather than direction. When you are where you want to be, do not move further in the same direction, because then you start to leave that destination, even if the direction is the same all the time!

That's one of the great failings of human beings. We always want to improve things. The hardest part of staying at the destination is trying to find things that will be able to keep you there. Like the right bull to complement the cows without over doing anything. That's the beaty off terminal bulls, you can still keep the same cow herd but chase the weight/carcass game and not be stuck with the aftermath.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Breeding for optimum; something about destination rather than direction. When you are where you want to be, do not move further in the same direction, because then you start to leave that destination, even if the direction is the same all the time!

That's one of the great failings of human beings. We always want to improve things. The hardest part of staying at the destination is trying to find things that will be able to keep you there. Like the right bull to complement the cows without over doing anything. That's the beaty off terminal bulls, you can still keep the same cow herd but chase the weight/carcass game and not be stuck with the aftermath.

Amen

 

[backhoeboogie]

Yes on both accounts, avoid extremes at all times in all aspects of breeding. The scrotal attachment has a correlation to udder attachment, so not only will a strong attachment mean better thermostatic control and less chance of the bull stepping on himself or being stepped on, but it may also have an influence on the productive life of its daughters.

I believe the optimum is between 36 and 40 cm yearling SC.

Prickly pear stuck in any low hanging organ is kind of disctracting to the ladies don't ya think?

When I am looking for a bull, optimum scrotal size is not on my list. I have a long list.

 

[Frankie]

Actually, if you look at the article I linked earlier (link below again), Dr. S. Blezinger says he knows of no research indicating a correlation between pendulous udders in cows and pendolous scrotums in their sons. In fact, he's doubtful of the relationship.

http://www.charolais.co.za/files/inport ... ection.pdf (very end of the article)

 

[ANAZAZI]

Actually, if you look at the article I linked earlier (link below again), Dr. S. Blezinger says he knows of no research indicating a correlation between pendulous udders in cows and pendolous scrotums in their sons. In fact, he's doubtful of the relationship.

http://www.charolais.co.za/files/inport ... ection.pdf (very end of the article)

My father told me that the notion that udders and scrotums has any thing to do with each other, was abandoned in the fifties. The tissue that makes the scrotum of the bull makes the labia of the cow.

 

[HerefordSire]

There is more to scrotum size than meets the eye of scientists. Tissue connecting testes is also inherited and is believed to be independent of scrotum size. Additionally, the larger size of testes assures more volume of semen relative to smaller size in the same amount of time under heavy workloads. I have a hunch that scrotum size is also positively correlated to longevity. Also, the larger size assures minimal size inheritance to progeny since it is a quantitative trait.

 

[East Caney]

so not only will a strong attachment mean better thermostatic control

Better temperature control for semen?
Yes

I believe the optimum is between 36 and 40 cm yearling SC.

What does that end being in a mature bull?
That's a good question, I'd guess between 40 and 45cm

it may also have an influence on the productive life of its daughters.

A better attached scrotum will influence the udder quality of that bull's female progeny?
Yes, or rather poor udder attachment often results in twisted or very unsymmetrical scrotums in the cow's male progeny. The opposite would also apply

Sorry for the barrage of questions. There's more to bull selection than I ever imagined.

Andrew

I am skeptical of this. Foundation Beefmasters are well known for having twisted scrotums...so much so that many refer to it as the "Colorado twist" (with reference to the location of the foundation herd). It seems that 90% of the bulls from the Lasater Ranch have some degree of "twist" to their scrotums. At the same time, 95% of the cows on that ranch have udders that would be envied by any producer of any breed. The udders seem to have optimum teat size and placement as well as suspension and support. To me, seeing is believing.

EC