Scouring calves-help!

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Pine Creek Ranch

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Swan Valley, Idaho
Okay, we have been running about 50 pair here for the last 5 years. We have used Scourguard in the past and never had any problems. (Meaning, we have never had to doctor a calf for scours, and never lost one or even seen one scouring). This year, we bought 30 more cows from several outside herds, and switched to Guardian at our vets recommendation, supposedly it covers more strains or whatever. We have always had a 2 month or less calving period, but this year one of the newly purchased cows calved in January, one calved in February, and 25 or so calved in March. Then, our cows that have been here for years started calving the beginning of April. We have always managed the same way, and although its not probably ideal, it has worked great for us in the past. We bring all the cows in close, to a smaller calving pen, probably about 10 acres, and as they calve we kick them out into a bigger pasture. This year, obviously there were a couple older calves in the pasture, but we didn't see any problems until our heifers started calving. We put them out in the bigger pasture just like normal and at nine days old they all started scouring, and then every calf born since then, (we had put more babies out in that pasture in the nine days it took for the scours to show up), EVERY consecutive calf since then we have had to doctor, and we have already lost one almost are going to lose the second. 13 calves in all went into that pasture in the nine days it took before the scours showed up, and all 13 scoured at between 9 and 12 days old.

So, as soon as we noticed the scouring in that pasture, we stopped putting newborns in there, and have just held them up here in the calving pasture, that was nine days ago and you can imagine my frustration when this morning I noticed the oldest calf up here is scouring badly. She is nine days old and the first one that we kept up here, since then we have had another 10 or so calve, all of which are now exposed to the scours and if all goes as before, will get scours at 9 to 12 days old. Not to mention all the pregnant cows still yet to calve, we are only half done and the calves are coming 2 a day now.

Now back to the Guardian. We gave the first dose March 13th, some cows had already calved by then but we knew we were going to be spread out this year because of the new cow purchases, so we did the best we could. Not to mention we got way too much snow here this year to get the cows in to work them any earlier than that. Then we waited until April 5th to give the booster dose. We asked a vet about this and he said it would work fine. On April 9th is when our heifers started calving so it was within 4 days of the booster dose. Obviously not enough time to build up much antibodies, but keep in mind we hadn't had ANY calves scour before we gave this booster dose (and none of the first 25 or 30 calves have even scoured yet) but as soon as we gave the booster dose EVERY calf has scoured since when they got to 9 days old or so. None before 9 days, but a couple at 11 or 12.

Is this just a coincidence? Could the Guardian vaccine have somehow given our cows and/or calves scours? Or is it just because it is that kind of year in these parts this year? (All the ranches around here are losing 10 to 25 percent of their calves to scours) Or is it because we brought on new cows? Or is it because we have a larger herd now?

If any of you have any good ideas on this, we would be so grateful for some advice. We can't hardly bear the thoughts of doctoring every calf from here on out. We are already run ragged just trying to save the ones that have got it already. It hits them really hard and they dehydrate in a matter of hours.

Help!
 
First thing I would do is take a half doezen or so fecal samples to the vet to see if they can isolate what is the cause of the problem. Could be something different in the environment this year, could be the weather, could be the outside cows, could be ..........................
 
I know what your going thru.I had never had a problem with scours ever until this year we brought in a group and it started.It went thru every calf on that farm good luck to you.

You might ask your vet if he thinks your horse needs some gentamicin ;-)
 
Or is it just because it is that kind of year in these parts this year? (All the ranches around here are losing 10 to 25 percent of their calves to scours) Or is it because we brought on new cows? Or is it because we have a larger herd now?
Yes to all but:
I think your newbies brought in a different strain than your herd is used to.

I would give all newborns a dose of collimune and calf guard or first defence ,something that combats e coli and all other bacteria.

Also make sure that your babies get colostrum in them as soon as they are born if you can; especially the heifers' calves, use powdered colostrum if necessary.

Is there any other pasture you can move them to?

If not, this is pretty much all you can do and the key to scours is hydration so you are going to be busy busy busy. Been there done that, and it was when we brought new animals into the herd; so now my herd is closed.

Good luck. I know how frustrating this can be but hang in there and do your best, also what Dun suggested about a fecal sample to your vet might not be a bad idea.
 
Yes.. definately get a fecal to your vet. He should be able to tell you pretty quickly what this is.

There are a lot of "bugs" the herd can pick up, which is my guess. Cocciddiosis, or camphlybacteria (sp?),salmonila, etc.. any of these can "run" through your calf crop like that. All it takes is one to get it, and it spreads like crazy.

I'd also calf out any other cows away from the ones you have now, if it's at all possible.

Good luck! Been there, and it is a tough job.
 
Larry, we have tried about everything so far as treatment is concerned: Terramycin tablets, Nuflor, Micotil 300, and penicillin. One doesn't seem to work any better than another, and if the calf isn't too dehydrated the terramycin tablets seem to do just fine. We are also drenching the calves with electrolytes if they are really dehydrated, and/or just giving E.V.M. paste. (electrolytes, vitamins, microbials). We have been using spectomycin as well, (the red pig scour stuff), and kaolin, (the pink stuff). Most of the calves have actually responded pretty well to treatment, but we already lost one embryo bull out of a first time heifer, and another purebred calf out of a heifer is almost dead.

And yes, our vet does think our horse needs some gentamycin. ;-) We'll see if that helps. We have also ordered some First Defense, it should be here tomorrow. We took a calf in to the vet today, its one of the worst ones and it was crashing fast, but he said that he can't do a fecal sample on it because we used antibiotics on it and that will affect the results. So, we are carrying little ziploc bags around with us waiting for the next calf to scour and see if we can get a clean fecal sample before we start treating it.

Anyone know how much of the spectomycin to use?

I wish we had another pasture to go to. We kinda have our hands tied this year. I am definitely going to plan things differently for next year. I can't go through this again.

Any idea how long this stuff lasts in the ground? Will these pastures be infected for next calving season too, or will they clean up over the summer and winter? I guess it probably has to do with what virus or bacteria is causing this, eh?

I'll let you all know how this turns out. Man its the pits. And I was looking forward to calving season this year.
 
Pine Creek Ranch":2ttr66zq said:
Any idea how long this stuff lasts in the ground? Will these pastures be infected for next calving season too, or will they clean up over the summer and winter?

Some of this stuff can live in the ground for years. Without knowing what you have it's all just shooting in the dark
 
EAT BEEF":2z4c1lbv said:
You might ask your vet if he thinks your horse needs some gentamicin ;-)

By far the best scour medicine I've ever used for my calves, er horses. ;-)
 
I had a calf I bought from a new farm and scoured really bad, when all the treatments were not working I ended up calling a vet out and they did a blood test which confirmed 2 different types of E-coli in his bloodstream that his mother had passed on. The only treatment was 3-4 electrolyte feedings daily to keep him dehydated. it took him a little over 2 months to rid himself of this horrible thing
 
I've had more cow calf people come for advice on calf scours this spring than any time I can remember, I can't explain why but it seems to be everywhere . The treatment we've had the best luck with is Baytril injected, 10 ml spectinomycin oral 2x, SMZ 2 pills 2x, probios, on the ones in bad shape 2 ml dexamethasone . Let the calf continue to nurse the cow .Give extra fluids, they will probably do more good than the medicine . If you get some Gent for your horse ;-) you can use 5 ml 2x of that oral instead of the spectin . Fight it as long and as hard as you can then go in the house and try not to think about it untill the next morning (easier said than done).

Larry
 
I blamed it on the weather, we and our neighbors, had worst scour problems ever. I treated calves at first sign and as a precaution with durvet oxytetracline hydrrochloride bolus. Worst cases got electrolytes and nutritional supplement. It worked.
 
For all you that are using gentamycin -- the stuff isn't labeled for food-producing animals for good reason. Yes, it may work for scours, but it has an 18-24 month withdrawal and it has the potential to cause severe kidney damage. And y'all want to use it on a dehydrated calf??? it may or may not cause kidney failure, and if it doesn't, I hope you're not planning to butcher that calf anytime soon.

Kinda hard to convince the general public that their meat is safe when cattlemen are pumping illegal drugs with extended slaughter withdrawal times into their animals, and then not observing those withdrawal times.
 
If you are giving extra fluids we have had good luck using a product called Deliver. I think its gelling actions helps them retain the oral meds given to them
 
I'd be a little leary of using Nuflor in a scours situation since a side effect can be transient diarrhea .
I've personally had good luck with Trivetrin .
 
We just went thru several with the scours really bad. It's taken a couple of weeks, but it seems to be under control now.Mine had coccidiosis. I treated it with Corid. All the calves got tubed with a Corid solution. Then I medicated all the water troughs. They are all clear now.
 
Been there and I feel for you. I had it really bad last spring. Used excede and nufluor, had to give electrolytes and even IV a few. I don't know how your feed situation was, but one thing to keep in mind for next year is make sure you are feeding enough protein prior to calving so your cows can make the best colostum possible. Protein can easily get over looked. Last winter all we had was CRP and some silage (drought), not much we could do. Neither one is very high in CP. Looking back, I should have gotten some lick tubs (hind sight always 20-20). This year we had good hay and balanced the ration for CP. No problems. Good Luck, keep your head up it is tough.
 
Hey "Pine Creek" maybe its something around us I've been fighting scours for about a month. Been saving some of them. Just sent a fecal sample off yesterday. My calves have been healthy enough you can't catch them one day, the next there dead. Just doctored one all day yesterday and last night. finally got him up today. still weak and had a hard time walking. Maybe them ravens are bringing it from my place to yours. Or vice versa. Its only about 20 miles from your place to mine.
 
Jasranch, when you find out what the results are let me know. I would be really interested in hearing what strain you have, we were going to take some samples here but the vet said we couldn't use any we had given antibiotics to, which was every calf that was sick at the time. We have been waiting for another one to get sick so we can try to get a fecal sample before we start doctoring it, but so far we have had a break from the horrible scours. Probably due to the fact that I switched pastures to calve in. Now I won't have anywhere to go for grass though. Oh well. Better than doctoring calves.

Where are you located if you are only 20 miles from us?
 

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