School me on over seeding pasture

Help Support CattleToday:

Glad this got jumped back up on top of the board again.

I only found out about the toxicity in fesue a few month ago and have been reading about it since then. I'm waiting on surveyors to finish up for the other chunk of small property. So I will start a rotational grazing method. I did talk to the local extension office guy that has the drill. I'm gonna have to plant the wheat first since it's the deeper seed then come back on top with fescue, red clover, and white clover. Maybe a touch of chicory. All of those can be planted at the same time and same depth so I. Will just mix the seed all together. What else should I throw in, orchard grass? Next big thing is gonna be what wheat to get? Tennessee forage guide shows about 15 types that are good for our region but that doesn't help me much. Does anyone have any recommendations for seed suppliers either local to SE TN or website?
 
Glad this got jumped back up on top of the board again.

I only found out about the toxicity in fesue a few month ago and have been reading about it since then. I'm waiting on surveyors to finish up for the other chunk of small property. So I will start a rotational grazing method. I did talk to the local extension office guy that has the drill. I'm gonna have to plant the wheat first since it's the deeper seed then come back on top with fescue, red clover, and white clover. Maybe a touch of chicory. All of those can be planted at the same time and same depth so I. Will just mix the seed all together. What else should I throw in, orchard grass? Next big thing is gonna be what wheat to get? Tennessee forage guide shows about 15 types that are good for our region but that doesn't help me much. Does anyone have any recommendations for seed suppliers either local to SE TN or website?
I noticed you said "START a rotational grazing METHOD." Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that "sounded" like you might not be real familiar with rotational grazing. I'm attaching a 'guide' that almost guarantees success with rotational grazing. I can explain it more if you need me to, but it is very simple and only has 4 things to follow.

The four never fail rules of grazing
(cool season grasses)
Never let seed heads form on plants. This will stunt growth later in the season if it occurs. 1

Never let livestock graze more than 7 continuous days on a pasture. 2

Never graze closer than 3 inches. 3

Never return to a pasture in less than 30 days. 4

Exceptions to the rules- USE CAUTIOUSLY!!

Warm Season grasses in the Western half of the US behave differently than cool season grasses in the East. These plants may require the formation of seed heads to survive. Consult a grazing specialist before deciding to graze warm season grasses, ANYWHERE! Their growth and survival requirements are very different from cool season grasses. Although, they do provide some very important benefits when used in conjunction with cool season grasses.

Grazing more than 7 continuous days results in animals regrazing plants that have resumed growth after being grazed off. These plants are targeted because they are more tender and succulent. This grazing pattern results in decreased vigor and loss of the most desirable plants in a pasture and spot grazing. However, grazing in a pasture for more than 7 consecutive days will not result in selective grazing if the plants are dormant. This occurs during the winter months and also during drought. Both of these are time periods when extended rest may be desirable over continued rotation.

Grazing closer than three inches can be used, and should be, when broadcast seeding is done for an existing pasture. The short grass promotes better seed to soil contact. Closer than a three inch grazing height is inefficient for cattle and results in reduced intake, which means lower weight gains, which means decreased profit. Grazing an actively growing plant closer than three inches will compromise its regrowth ability and lower its vigor. However, grazing a dormant plant closer than a three inch grazing height will not have near the adverse effect as an actively growing plant. This can be particularly important to know during a drought when forage may be scarce, but, plants are dormant. Don't turn the pasture into a dustbowl. Avoid crown damage and uprooting of plants.

It may be required that livestock are returned to a pasture before 30 days in rare springtime circumstances where the spring flush is particularly vigorous. This is required to prevent seed head formation, first in the list of general rules, and maintain growth throughout the year instead of getting all of your production at once. Extreme cases may actually require mowing to prevent seed head development due to rapid growth.
 
Allow me to ask, are you going to have a cow/calf operation or raise weaned calves to market size? Or have an operation where you have the calf all the way from birth to market? If only a grow out operation, will you have a herd over the winter season?
 
Your local TN cooperative can get any type of wheat you decide to purchase. Just make sure if you are drilling in the fall its winter wheat
Yes I will be drilling right there at Labor Day. According to everyone local I've talked to that week is the sweet spot
 
Allow me to ask, are you going to have a cow/calf operation or raise weaned calves to market size? Or have an operation where you have the calf all the way from birth to market? If only a grow out operation, will you have a herd over the winter season?
Cow/calf operation. Just small operation. 6 cows 1 bull. I typically sell the calf's around 9-10 months old
 
The reason I was asking, I was considering (in part) how significant winter grazing would be for you. I'm going to guess you calve year round and don't try to get all your calves in either the spring or fall. With that in mind, I would definitely plant tall fescue as the main pasture grass. You can use KY31, or a tall fescue with a novel endophyte, but not endophyte free. You need the endophyte for winter vigor in the tall fescue. If you use KY 31, make sure you have a healthy mix of a clover/legume to buffer any effect of fescue toxicosis that may occur. IF you calve all in the spring, consider a stand of orchard grass instead of the fescue as that will provide a bit more growth/forage for the calves during the summer, but the trade off is that it doesn't carry into the winter as fell as the fescue, but it is still decent. The calves should do better with actual grazing. The cows can harvest directly from the pasture or consume hay, there is little if any difference between hay and grazing for them.
 
Well, I have had those same 4 rules drilled into me many, many years ago. So, I googled them and guess who I found wrote an article about them??
@Mark Reynolds
Mark, it is great that you are taking your time to share your knowledge. Thanks. I am going to print your "original" article (little fancier) than the above report - in my next newsletter. I print 5 newsletters a year for NY Simmental Assn. It is emailed all over US, so a few extra people will get to read it. SPOT ON!
 
Mark Reynolds
Mark Reynolds is a Grazing Specialist/Soil Conservationist of the Natural Resource Conservation Service (NRCS) out of Marietta, Ohio. Prior to that he worked as a Rangeland Management Specialist for the BLM in Nevada and the Colville Confederated Tribes in Washington State. He and his wife, Leann, live in Parkersburg, West Virginia with their three children. He has written over 250 grazing management plans for livestock producers to assist them with pasture management grazing rotations and grazing issues. He is a graduate From Purdue University with a BS in Animal Science and Wildlife Science and holds a MS in Rangeland Resources from Oregon State University.
 
Well, I have had those same 4 rules drilled into me many, many years ago. So, I googled them and guess who I found wrote an article about them??
@Mark Reynolds
Mark, it is great that you are taking your time to share your knowledge. Thanks. I am going to print your "original" article (little fancier) than the above report - in my next newsletter. I print 5 newsletters a year for NY Simmental Assn. It is emailed all over US, so a few extra people will get to read it. SPOT ON!
LOL. You caught me! You are quite welcome. Rotational grazing has so many benefits, but only if you know how to do it. Its fairly simple, but there are things to know in order to make it effective.
 
All 4 are equally important, but number 2 - never graze more than 7 days - seems to be the hardest to get people to abide by. If you have more than 3-4 days worth of grazing, just split it.
Some of my pastures have to be split where they graze the front 1/2, then drop the fence and they have to walk over the grazed half to get to back half, but they are never on any of it total more than maybe 5 days. They are quick to only grab the new regrowth.
 
All 4 are equally important, but number 2 - never graze more than 7 days - seems to be the hardest to get people to abide by. If you have more than 3-4 days worth of grazing, just split it.
Some of my pastures have to be split where they graze the front 1/2, then drop the fence and they have to walk over the grazed half to get to back half, but they are never on any of it total more than maybe 5 days. They are quick to only grab the new regrowth.
Yep, the new growth is what gets you when you graze more than 7 days. At day 4, there is new growth that starts to be accessible. After day 7, the cows are focused exclusively on the new regrowth and are totally ignoring the 8-10 inch older grass that they can get a full mouthfull. Additionally, regrazing this regrowth in this manner ends up hurting the vigor of the grass plant, which means slower growth and less total production.

I seem to have the most trouble getting producers to give the pasture a full 30 days of rest. They see that new grass and want to get back on it after 2 weeks. There are reasons to do that in the spring (seedhead formation prevention) but in the summer, the grass plant takes a hit when you do that. (I do fudge the 30 day rule myself by setting up a 5 pasture rotation with grazing intervals of 7 days, which is of course a week and works quite nicely). When you do the math, you will notice that gives you only 28 days of rest. Well, I work for the government, and they say "close enough for government work" ;)
 
First time out in spring, I have 12 basic paddocks. They get about 1 day each for the first 4-5. Then 1-2 days each. I will be back on 1st paddock before 28 days, but it is growing so fast it doesn't hurt it. I generally have to hay a couple of the paddocks but I won't be this time. We are dust bowl dry. Extremely unusual for NY. We are hurting.
 
First time out in spring, I have 12 basic paddocks. They get about 1 day each for the first 4-5. Then 1-2 days each. I will be back on 1st paddock before 28 days, but it is growing so fast it doesn't hurt it. I generally have to hay a couple of the paddocks but I won't be this time. We are dust bowl dry. Extremely unusual for NY. We are hurting.
Yep. You can do that in the spring, and actually need to in order to prevent seed head formation, another of the rules. See the exceptions on the guide.
 
Hey guys. Sorry for such a delays return. Full time job has been killing me along with these 2 kiddos…… just been very busy. I started clearing up the old fence rows on my grandfathers old place that I bought. Man what a mess. I bet since my grandfather sold and moved no one had done any fencing on it in 20+ years minus some patch work. So I'm slowly getting ready to start my perimeter fencing on what needs re-fenced. I'm trying to lay out in my mind how to lay out my lots for rotational grazing. My property set up isn't perfect. So with 2 different fields roughly 12 acres a piece how big would you put your lots? You've gotta have an ally for them to move from one lot to the next ect… I've gotta to redneck engineer my fence that crosses a dry creek 20ish' wide but floods if we get a lot of rain. My biggest concern is water. Worst come to worst is I run water hoses but man how will I keep this from freezeing in the winter? This whole system is new to me so I do have many questions
 
Hey guys. Sorry for such a delays return. Full time job has been killing me along with these 2 kiddos…… just been very busy. I started clearing up the old fence rows on my grandfathers old place that I bought. Man what a mess. I bet since my grandfather sold and moved no one had done any fencing on it in 20+ years minus some patch work. So I'm slowly getting ready to start my perimeter fencing on what needs re-fenced. I'm trying to lay out in my mind how to lay out my lots for rotational grazing. My property set up isn't perfect. So with 2 different fields roughly 12 acres a piece how big would you put your lots? You've gotta have an ally for them to move from one lot to the next ect… I've gotta to redneck engineer my fence that crosses a dry creek 20ish' wide but floods if we get a lot of rain. My biggest concern is water. Worst come to worst is I run water hoses but man how will I keep this from freezeing in the winter? This whole system is new to me so I do have many questions
Contact your local NRCS and ask for advice.
 

Latest posts

Top