School me on over seeding pasture

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I have thought about both seasons but only have though you can plant certain seeds and certain times of the year.
If you can afford it, and you want to, try seeding both warm and cools. I see it working for other people.

The warm season will wait on the right conditions and sprout. Assuming birds don't eat the seed. Definitely only drill with both types. Broadcasting leaves them vulnerable as they wait to come up.

My 2 cents.
 
@chaded

Gotta give it time to let the successional thing play out. But you'll end up with a beautiful stand. This is all seedbank and was a very weedy hayfield in 2017. Beggar's Lice has really came alive the last couple years. Got to live with a few weeds. They eat them too.

My camera sucks.
 

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@chaded

Gotta give it time to let the successional thing play out. But you'll end up with a beautiful stand. This is all seedbank and was a very weedy hayfield in 2017. Beggar's Lice has really came alive the last couple years. Got to live with a few weeds. They eat them too.

My camera sucks.

Do you have pictures from before?
 
Do you have pictures from before?
On an old phone maybe. I can tell you it was covered in horse nettle, stick weed. Iron weed, cuckleburr, and plenty of other undesirables. Good bit of broomsedge as well. And some wild rose plants.

The first Cutting of hay I made on the place was almost worthless.

I still see horsenettle and ironwood.they are persistent perennials. But they are thinning. Truthfully, my animals take bites of EVERYTHING. Most surprisingly was the blackberry and horse nettle. They will nip the leaves and tender growth tips off. Same with spiny amaranth.

I'm getting plenty of legumes coming up. White and red clover, Vetch, and beggars lice. Grasses are also spreading, most important to me is the johnson grass is slowly spreading.
 
Little update:

If things work out in my favor I will be purchasing another 12 acres within the next month maybe 2. Part of my grandfathers old place. Very exited and plus it's sentimental to me. Anyways gotta redo some fencingand it's ready to go. I talked to my local nrcs today and man he was a lot of help. So I ended up finding a seed drill and will be able to roatate pastures this fall. I now have a pamphlet of a list of seeds, rating of seeds per acre, and planting depth. Now my question would be what all do I need to plant. Fescue, rye, orchard?
 
I thought the same thing too. I'm sure the soil does have desirable seed in it, it also has some things lurking in there you don't want.
So with my 16-17 acres and 11 cows and a bull, I could cut off about 6-7 acres for a month or so and open up and cut off another section the same and repeat. I just have pasture grasses, Bermuda mostly. Do you think this would work ok or do they need all the 16-17 acres. Right now grass is not high. I might add I have also 8 calves and some gazing now. I will be moving 3 out next week to a calf pasture. I move out when 5 months old. Next month 3 more will be moving out.
Sorry, not intended to hi-Jack this thread but I just got excited about something that might work for my cows to help them out.
 
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So with my 16-17 acres and 11 cows and a bull, I could cut off about 6-7 acres for a month or so and open up and cut off another section the same and repeat. I just have pasture grasses, Bermuda mostly. Do you think this would work ok or do they need all the 16-17 acres. Right now grass is not high. I might add I have also 8 calves and some gazing now. I will be moving 3 out next week to a calf pasture. I move out when 5 months old. Next month 3 more will be moving out.
Sorry, not intended to hi-Jack this thread but I just got excited about something that might work for my cows to help them out.

Yes with that many cattle on that amount of land I would definitely be breaking up the pasture into smaller sections and rotating. I don't go by a specific time period usually. I let the grass tell me what I need to do as far as when to move. I would also probably go even smaller then 6-7 acre paddocks also.
 
Ok guys. With me renting a drill this fall I was thinking of incorporating so wheat for over the winter. To my understanding is fescues, orchard grass, and clovers planting depth is 1/4" and wheat is right there at 1". With that being said would I be able to drill the wheat first since it is planted the deepest than come back and drill the rest? Never used one or don't personally know anyone that has minus the big time farmers. Any insight?
 
Ok guys. With me renting a drill this fall I was thinking of incorporating so wheat for over the winter. To my understanding is fescues, orchard grass, and clovers planting depth is 1/4" and wheat is right there at 1". With that being said would I be able to drill the wheat first since it is planted the deepest than come back and drill the rest? Never used one or don't personally know anyone that has minus the big time farmers. Any insight?
Most drills have 2 seperate boxes, 2 for smaller seed and 1 that will work for the wheat. Some even have a 3rd box for clovers.
 
Most drills have 2 seperate boxes, 2 for smaller seed and 1 that will work for the wheat. Some even have a 3rd box for clovers.
So you can adjust which ever box to a certain depth? Say the back row to 1" and the front to 1/4"?
 
From a distance up here in the Shen valley... my suggestion, @TNtrout23 , is send @kenny thomas a p.m. (the little envelope up top right) and exchange phone numbers and get his opinion.... he travels alot for his trailer delivering job (among many other jobs he has since he "retired") and might be in your area and can tell you as much or more as anyone on that.
Plus @ClinchValley86 is into more grazing and rotational stuff... exchange numbers with him too and maybe he is close enough to come look or something... starting with someone in the general area is a big help with having similar conditions.
We have not done any overseeding in pastures, but are rotating animals more and running a few less head, and even letting the grass get further ahead so that they are reseeding even when the cows are in there, and have more grass than we had for years.
 
What warm season grasses are you all planting? Last year I did summer annual planting the gains drove home the power of C4. Between cost and management I'd prefer perennials. I've got some Johnson grass now, would love to get some seed. We rotationally graze so grass should get at least 40 days rest except in spring flush.
 
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What warm season grasses are you all planting? Last year I did summer annual planting the gains drove home the power of C4. Between cost and management I'd prefer perennials. I've got some Johnson grass now, would love to get some seed. We rotationally graze so grass should get at least 40 days rest except in spring flush.
Unless its recently changed its illegal to sell Johnson Grass seed in Virginia.
 
But if you can manage for it, it sure makes nice hay when you cut it right. I'd let one cutting go to seed and bushhog it. I haven't grazed it, but I think if you were careful about grazing it too long or too often it would be ok.


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I'm glad you went the route of the soil test. As you figured out, fertilizing without first figuring out what you already have, and what you actually need, results to an extent of applying nutrients you don't need or not enough of what you do need. I also appreciate the fact that you are looking at possibly why you don't have the desired forages already on the pasture rather than just applying seed thinking it will grow, without considering what the seed needs to grow. You may also want to look at your grazing management. In other words, are you rotating your herd through a pasture system or do you have a season long grazing system on one pasture? This will have a huge impact on any attempt to change the forage makeup within a pasture.

You said you were looking at seeding KY 31. I don't know if you have any issues with fescue toxicity where you are, but there are other tall fescue varieties available that have different endophytes within the plant from those found in KY 31 that do not result in toxicity or potential toxicity issues. The vetch and/or clover are good additions to the seed mix as they will fix nitrogen which in turn benefits the grass, whatever grasses you seed.

I'll explain the endophyte and fescue toxicity and what they are, but only if you want me to.
 
Yeah, explain the fescue endophytes. My pastures are about 50% hot KY 31. I have always thought it was hard on the cattle and sheep, particularly during the summer. I tried several of the novel fescues but was never able to get it to persist in the pasture.
Over the years of retaining my own stock it seems they have some resistance to it now.
 
Yeah, explain the fescue endophytes. My pastures are about 50% hot KY 31. I have always thought it was hard on the cattle and sheep, particularly during the summer. I tried several of the novel fescues but was never able to get it to persist in the pasture.
Over the years of retaining my own stock it seems they have some resistance to it now.
KY 31 contains an endophyte (which is a fungus, but don't let that bother you). This endophyte is what makes it hard on cattle and sheep, but it is also the reason that tall fescue makes such a great winter grazing forage. KY31 is extremely persistent and aggressive and will eventually return to any pasture it has been 'eliminated' from. I'm glad you used the term 'novel' as that tells me you are already familiar with some endophyte alternative tall fescues. The novel fescues you are referring to are more than likely the same tall fescue species as the KY 31. The difference is the endophyte. The endophyte in the KY 31 is the 'hot' endophyte that has toxicity effects on the cows and sheep. The novel tall fescues you speak of have had the hot endophyte removed and replaced with an alternative endophyte that does not have the toxic effects of the KY 31. But, the alternative endophyte has most of the advantages that the 'hot' endophyte has. Specifically, allows the tall fescue plant to withstand heavy, even abusive, grazing practices as well as make the tall fescue an excellent grass to graze in the winter. New novel endophytes are being introduced all the time now that don't have the toxicity of the KY 31. The novels have great benefits like the KY 31, but the benefits don't quite reach the level of the KY 31, hence trying to improve the novels. In my book, the novels are better than the KY 31 hands down.

The KY 31 is more aggressive and will eventually encroach back into the stand of the novel you plant. The best approach to establish a novel variety is to begin by eliminating as much of the KY 31 as possible, and the seed bank. The best approach to this that I have been informed on is a technique referred to as 'spray, smother, spray'. It takes a year to accomplish, but I know of producers that are pleased with the results and have novel stands that have persisted for over 10 years, and longer, when they have done this.

I'm not sure if livestock develop a resistance to the hot endophyte, although they may. My understanding of that is that the extent of the problems the hot endophyte can cause will vary from year to tear and season to season.
 

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