Schiefelbein Gable 311

[mncowboy]

Schiefelbein Gable 311
Pretty sharp looking character. Plan to try a few straws this season. See what you think. Hadnt heard of him until recently.

EPD Details

angus.org

 

[Josher]

I would use him if I could get him in Canada. Very nice bull. Let us know how they turn out.

 

[W.B.]

Nice enough looking bull. He is carrying plenty of condition. The bottom side of the pedigree isnt known for the best foot quality.

 

[Son of Butch]

low accuracy but he has the 'numbers' - top 1% $Maternal - top 20% $Beef
projects to siring big cows - top 10% mature weight - top 15% mature height

 

[W.B.]

Oh the numbers. The formula that puts these indexes is pretty complicated but does it make them better? Higher milk numbers give you a better $m but is that really a good thing? Realistically +25 milk for our local environment is enough.

 

[Son of Butch]

Oh the numbers. The formula that puts these indexes is pretty complicated but does it make them better?

It's just a ranking system within a group, to help manage risk.
Sort of like odds in horse racing the big favorite doesn't always win and in some cases doesn't even hit the board.
Too often people look at the numbers without looking at the accuracy provided or the heritability of a trait.
Young sire with less than 50% accuracy means less than 50/50 chance the number is correct (could be higher or lower)
Selecting sires is fun because it's based on hope, but you also need to manage your expectations.

 

[W.B.]

It's just a ranking system within a group, to help manage risk.
Sort of like odds in horse racing the big favorite doesn't always win and in some cases doesn't even hit the board.
Too often people look at the numbers without looking at the accuracy provided or the heritability of a trait.
Young sire with less than 50% accuracy means less than 50/50 chance the number is correct (could be higher or lower)
Selecting sires is fun because it's based on hope, but you also need to manage your expectations.

All true but the warts that many ignore to get the bigger numbers are later problems for the commercial producers such as myself. Feet, udders, fertility, maternal disposition after calving and overall longevity have suffered under the system.

 

[Son of Butch]

Higher milk numbers give you a better $m but is that really a good thing? Realistically +25 milk for our local environment is enough.

Not the ranking system's fault, but how people use it and their expectations.
Too many hope genetics will mask poor management.
25 traits and the lowest heritability of all 25 traits is Milk at only 12% meaning 88% is environment.
2nd lowest is HP (heifer pregnancy) at 15% = 85% environment

Other than ced and birthweight where epds can be used effectively is Stature 59% heritable and Mature Height has 69% correlation with Mature Weight 35% heritable. It's easier to shorten or increase cow stature with genetics than any of the 25 traits. I put a lot more emphasis on cow size fitting the environment than epd Milk or other traits.
You are right, the $M is a complex formula, but I think Milk epd in the formula has less than 10% influence in calculating $M

p.s.
W.B. my comments aren't directed at you, but just general commentary

 

[moses388]

"...purchase a 10% semen interest and revenue share." Anybody done this? How many straws/units can you expect to receive? Would you do it again?

 

[Son of Butch]

"...purchase a 10% semen interest and revenue share." Anybody done this? How many straws/units can you expect to receive? Would you do it again?

Many years ago I worked selling shares with a group. Most broke even and some made decent return on their money, but mostly the appeal was status and bragging rights. Who the people are behind it would be the determining factor if I'd do it again. Schiefelbein's have top reputation locally, but doing it again with today's fast changing genetics, I'd take a soft pass.

 

[W.B.]

I like your take in this. To me there are a lot of Resilient sons out there so he better be really good to get much market share. I see they already have 75 birth weights turned in so I guess that's positive at least.

 

[GoWyo]

Too much MH for here and the big +96 WW EPD would not be expressed on our summer pasture. PAP is no good for here. His sire works good here. He is not in any way an improvement over what his sire offers here.

 

[W.B.]

Too much MH for here and the big +96 WW EPD would not be expressed on our summer pasture. PAP is no good for here. His sire works good here. He is not in any way an improvement over what his sire offers here.

Our daughter used Resilient on a small scale. My only criticism is they aren't as tame as their mothers. Not crazy wild but not as quiet as I would like to see them either. I see his docility has dropped as progeny have been reported.

 

[GoWyo]

The docility is interesting. I have had one bull that was a little hot. He got injured after two weeks in the breeding pasture and went to burger end of summer after I got him healed up enough to get on the trailer. The rest have been real easy going. Have heard the same thing as you from others though, so no doubt the issue exists.

 

[mncowboy]

First one arrived. 59 lb heifer out of a first calf heifer. About 10 days early.

 

[mncowboy]

Got my last Gable calf this morning in negative 10* temps. I only had 5 AI'd but luck would have it all 5 stuck on a timed AI program. I've never had 100% conception before. They're Due date is coming up on the 2nd so he appears to be a shorter gestation bull.