SAV America has a long way to go

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dbirdsong

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https://www.drovers.com/article/what-makes-bull-worth-millions?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTVRBMU9HTTBaVGt6TkdaayIsInQiOiJIajFqazkwRXJDMmNEVFh5XC85WkF3OGRCU2ZISHpzY2tGMExSbFNkcThwdXJoNmE1cllEbUVZWjVaMnJVYWxDdFdJSG4wS1FuZmtwb25FckE3RUdwN05HaHRXK0FXSzZCQURLNnhwVVBIRjRENXpoTWc0enAyenlFckk3end3aGwifQ%3D%3D
 
TennesseeTuxedo said:
The journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step.

There may never be another Hoover Dam, but isn't that what they said about Final Answer?

True but they proved their value through their progeny not sale ring hype.
 
You're right. He's got a long ways to go but he's also already got over a 15,000 straw waiting list. At $80 a straw he will most likely be paid off before his second breeding season.
Final Answer sold over 500,000 units of semen.

I'd use his sire while you wait.

SAV President (New Pic)
 
https://www.ntnews.com.au/business/most-virile-bull-in-the-world-produced-24m-doses-of-semen-during-his-stellar-career/news-story/0ff6be6b6d3549e27eb67955eabaac7f

He has a really long way to go to surpass the Holstein leader
 
I don't think he will ever have the use either Final Answer or Hoover Dam had because of his bw and price. Angus breeders might use him heavily but the commercial sector will shy away.
 
LCBulls said:
You're right. He's got a long ways to go but he's also already got over a 15,000 straw waiting list. At $80 a straw he will most likely be paid off before his second breeding season.
Final Answer sold over 500,000 units of semen.

I'd use his sire while you wait.

SAV President (New Pic)

We bred all of our mature cow to either president or rain dance a
 
dbirdsong said:
LCBulls said:
You're right. He's got a long ways to go but he's also already got over a 15,000 straw waiting list. At $80 a straw he will most likely be paid off before his second breeding season.
Final Answer sold over 500,000 units of semen.

I'd use his sire while you wait.

SAV President (New Pic)

We bred all of our mature cow to either president or rain dance a

Both are darn fine bulls.
 
dbirdsong said:
I don't think he will ever have the use either Final Answer or Hoover Dam had because of his bw and price. Angus breeders might use him heavily but the commercial sector will shy away.

Yeah, He probably won't sell near that many, especially at 80 bucks. The bulls that usually sale the most straws are CE heifer bulls. I'm sure that he'll be 40 bucks or so after next breeding season. Still probably too high for most commercial folks.
 
I was trying to refrain from posting on this thread, but I needed to chime in since I am actually putting straws of SAV America in my gals at the moment and throughout the next year.

Yesterday, I had a couple of brothers stop by to look at yearling bulls for the fall breeding season. I showed them a couple of two year olds I have left, a Harvestor son that is service ready, and some Internationals, along with Presidents. It took all of a few minutes for them to say "Tell me about those two bulls" which were both SAV President sons. They didn't have interest in anything else. I told them that the Internationals were excellent, and that Harvestor would make great females, that did not matter, they wanted the "look" and size of the President bulls, which are not even yearlings, but look thick as all get out and are correct from top to bottom.

What I'm trying to get at is that they did not know what they were looking at when they decided what they wanted. They didn't get a line of hype or "President sold for this much, so you should love this bull", they looked at them strictly on phenotype and what was standing right in front of them.

Another reason they really liked the President bulls is that they stood right beside them and the bulls acted as if no one was in the pen, they were unfazed, calm as can be. That went a long way with these buyers.

Now many on here will put up the "bs" emoji, and if you want to do that, fine with me, I know what we have, but if you want to PM for the number of these buyers, I will with their permission provide it to you, so you can chat with them and hear what they have to say. They are not professional seed stock operators, just cattlemen that are looking for quality to improve their herd quickly.

Their main intention was to see if I would sell heifers, which I won't, and they ended up bull shopping during the visit. They do want embryos if they can get an embryologist to do the work for them. I don't have embryos available yet either, I told them that my best President daughter might be a good candidate for them, or one of my Elation heifers in time.

Now for America, my reasoning for using him extensively lies completely in his pedigree. I know first hand what Blackcap May 4136 can do for a herd, I love what President has done, and I know that Madame Pride 0075 is a phenomenal cow maker. Through a little common sense, I saw that all three of those are wrapped up in one pedigree, SAV America 8018. Hence my reason for using him. I wanted him strictly because of the females he can produce. In fact I'm getting ready to breed a couple of Raindance daughters to him, which would be a first cousin mating, in order to get as much Blackcap May 4136 in the bloodline as possible. If that mating produces daughters, then I will look to breeding them with Hoover Dam as well as Net Worth (a serious daughter maker) with reversed sex sorted semen, courtesy of help from Trans Ova to get more females. It's a very long term plan, but it's all coming together.

The price that America brought at auction had NO BEARING whatsoever on why I wanted to use him. Sure, it's an interesting talking point, but there is a lot more to what he brings to the equation besides hype. Do your homework on Madame Pride 0075 and you will see what I'm talking about. You guys think I'm in the bull business, but it's embryos that I'm after.

At $80 a straw, SAV America 8018 is one of the best bargains around. It's hard to imagine that a daughter of America won't earn back $80 plus the cost of the AI tech, over her lifetime.
 
ALACOWMAN said:
How come you don't do your own AI work??

I took the class from my ABS rep, who rides me hard about it, but I simply don't feel confident that I have the ability of my AI tech who has AI'd a huge number of dairy cows for 30 years or so. I've gotten through the cervix on multiple attempts, but I get thrown off on the blind pouch, and have talked to BR about this, it drives me nuts when I get blocked there. Therefore, I focus more on handling the animal, making sure he has what he needs, and letting him do his thing. He settles a lot of them first try, and for me if it's not broken, don't fix it.

With that said however, I definitely need to do my own AI work. It's something that bugs me, and eventually enough to the point where I will force myself to do it. I have 3-4 sources to call upon when I need AI, so I admit, I take the easy route.
 
If SAV America sold for 1.51 million in February, why has he not been transferred into the new owners name. I know Schaffs retained 20% ownership in the bull, but usually the records will show all owners. Is it because Herbsters only purchased a semen interest and did not actually buy the bull? I'm not sure how that works. I don't remember a situation like this where someone apparently bought only an interest in the semen and not the bull himself.

At $80 per straw, if America could produce and sell 18,875 straws for Herbsters and produce another 4700 straws for the 20% interest belonging to Schaffs, that would give Herbster back their purchase price. I don't know what it costs to house and collect a bull, or what promotion costs, but they could theoretically make a profit in time. There are very few Hoover Dams or Final Answers, so they will need to sell as much as they can now for as much as the market will bear. A year or two from now this bull may be old news selling discounted semen.

The high semen price will most likely help his EPD's. If you pay $80 a straw and get the average of 60% pregnancy it costs you over $130 per pregnancy and you will be very tempted to protect the EPD's on those calves by carefully selecting contemporary groups or even by reporting manipulated data.
 
I think he is a good bull but bordering on extreme and questionable numbers/dna/ownership which would make me be very wary of using him more than just a test on a limited number of cows. Famous case here a while back when an animal sold for big dollars. When it was delivered it was also delivered with a truck load of heifers that weren't in the sale with said animal. Always makes me wary of these sorts of sales. But it is smart promotion if in fact there is more than meets the eye.
 
Someone challenged the owners about this exact question. Their reply was that they definitely purchased the 2/3 Semen interest in the bull. It wasn't funny money.
I agree that it's strange that they don't genomically test most of their Sires. They probably know that for the Most part, SAV won't blow you away on "paper".
They do have phenotype, structure and a certain look to their cattle that's hard to find, especially in high growth cattle.
We used Seedstock because he was a 4136 x 0075 combo. Both cows are as proven as can be and produced over 16 years old.
I'd say He's going to produce excellent cows, which I believe is what should be the goal of most producers. Not just Paper breeding. My 2 cents
 
Redgully said:
I think he is a good bull but bordering on extreme and questionable numbers/dna/ownership which would make me be very wary of using him more than just a test on a limited number of cows. Famous case here a while back when an animal sold for big dollars. When it was delivered it was also delivered with a truck load of heifers that weren't in the sale with said animal. Always makes me wary of these sorts of sales. But it is smart promotion if in fact there is more than meets the eye.

I could care less who owns him, as long as the dna matches up, which it will. Who owns him will not affect me at all.

If you think SAV is questionable, then there goes the cattle business as a whole. Who's next Connealy, VAR?
 
LCBulls said:
You're right. He's got a long ways to go but he's also already got over a 15,000 straw waiting list. At $80 a straw he will most likely be paid off before his second breeding season.
Final Answer sold over 500,000 units of semen.

I'd use his sire while you wait.

SAV President (New Pic)


He sure looks good. I just doubt how they will hold up in my climate. It has been absolutely brutal here. 95+ degrees with heat index 110-115. Even my eared cows are suffering
 
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