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sant gertrudis epd

toxxie24

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my son bought a young gert bull today with intentions of breeding him to english cross cattle. his bw epd is 1.09. is this acceptable? his actual weight at birth was 63 lbs... any input would be appreciated
 

Rafter S

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I wouldn't use a Santa Gertrudis bull on heifers regardless of his EPD. With mature cows I don't worry about it.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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My grandpa bought a big gert bull years ago to add some frame to his angus cows. This was back before epd's were available and I doubt the breeder recorded any birth weights back then. Lost most of his calves that year and several good cows.

From my understanding your bw epd is based on breeding a gert bull to a gert cow, I do not think it takes in to account hybrid vigor from crossbreeding.
 

Bigfoot

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Hybred vigor will pretty high on those calves. Starts in the uterus imho. Some here disagree with that. Anything but a heifer, I'd do it without looking back.
 

toxxie24

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he will not be used on heifers, but plan to put him on them after they have first calf and on some older cows. what would constitute "low birth weight" for a gert.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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Bigfoot":1ndmkt3k said:
Hybred vigor will pretty high on those calves. Starts in the uterus imho. Some here disagree with that. Anything but a heifer, I'd do it without looking back.

Lose a few cows and you will look back quite a bit :lol:
 

Caustic Burno

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midTN_Brangusman":dchcupkp said:
Bigfoot":dchcupkp said:
Hybred vigor will pretty high on those calves. Starts in the uterus imho. Some here disagree with that. Anything but a heifer, I'd do it without looking back.

Lose a few cows and you will look back quite a bit :lol:

That is the very reason I can't put a Char bull in the pasture today.
Before we even knew what an epd was I wore out a set of chains pulling calves.
 

Caustic Burno

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greybeard":dcq3vn55 said:
Caustic Burno":dcq3vn55 said:
Rafter S":dcq3vn55 said:
I wouldn't use a Santa Gertrudis bull on heifers regardless of his EPD. With mature cows I don't worry about it.
Agree

Here is some reading material

http://www.brahman.org/PDFs/Reciprocal- ... rences.pdf
Aren't pb Gerts just 3/8 Brahman?

Yep you are correct I wouldn't want any Brahman or composite on English heifers especially Hereford as that cross is known and documented to produce behemoth bull calves.
Brahman heifers with English bull bw is suppressed.
I have looked at some Brahman bull prospects for the premium for the heifers I know I will get skinned on the steer calves. I keep throwing the brakes on because of problems I have had in the past on Braford cows.
This was in the days before epds burnt child is scared of fire.
I love brimmer cross or composite cow and have never pulled a calf using an English bull.
Wore out chains on some others breeds on Braford cows.
 

Stocker Steve

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Interesting stuff. I started out with a lot of running age Hereford cows. Decided to weigh the calves, but got spooked by the numbers. Heifers were mostly in the 90s, and bulls were mostly 100 to 110 pounds. Never had to assist one and those old girls loved their big babies. They had much higher bw than this data.

Did I have some old timey bloodlines or are the southern calves that much smaller?
 

toxxie24

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we have no intentions of putting the gert bull on any heifers. i have memories back to 35 years ago when my dad ran a gert on some hereford cows.... lots of calving problems, but the herefords at that time may have averaged 900 lbs... epd testing of bulls was unheard of as far as i can remember. on the positive side, the heifers from that bull made amazing mommas. i was sent some info that the gert herd average is 83lbs, but i also read some other info that the average is 72 lbs . the breeders in the north mississippi /north alabama area that i have talked with claim to have average bw of 68. could this be a regional difference?
 

greatgerts

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I believe some is a regional difference, as well as just genetic difference. One of our bulls has sired calves at our place with bw ranging from 68-74. We had him collected and used him for some ET calves, and they were born in Oklahoma near OKC, and bw was from 70-85.
Another bull of ours had calves that would not even touch the mid 70s on his calves. That was the bull I liked to use on commercial heifers. Of course, I had raised the bull too, so I knew a lot about him.
 

Caustic Burno

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greatgerts":28ab4b95 said:
I believe some is a regional difference, as well as just genetic difference. One of our bulls has sired calves at our place with bw ranging from 68-74. We had him collected and used him for some ET calves, and they were born in Oklahoma near OKC, and bw was from 70-85.
Another bull of ours had calves that would not even touch the mid 70s on his calves. That was the bull I liked to use on commercial heifers. Of course, I had raised the bull too, so I knew a lot about him.

All the breeds have improved over the last 50 years with tons of research and data to back it up.
There are regional differences as you stated a lot has to do with the different stresses placed on the bovine by the environment she has to operate in.
The anomalies are still more prevalent when crossing X and Y breeds that hybred vigor we all strive for sometimes isn't a good thing.
 

midTN_Brangusman

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Ky hills

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I have always been interested in using some percentage Brahman bulls, like Santa Gertrudis or Brangus on some of my cows ( Hereford and Angus ) for the purpose of replacement heifers. I have some Gert and Gert x Hereford cows that I bought as heifers, that have been really good calf raisers. We left a bull calf out of an Angus bull and a Brahman x Hereford heifer intact. I go back and forth about putting him in with some Angus cows, probably won't. I had always understood that the Brangus, Santagertrudis type breeds were fairly easy calving, but had heard of calving problems with Brahman on British breeds. I remember years ago when I started out with some Charolais heifers someone recommended that I use a Santa Gertrudis bull on them the first year. I didn't go that route, and wouldn't for heifers.
 

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