Salt and minerals?

[rockridgecattle]

]
Nope, don't need a refresher....or a dance either. If you don't want to feed animal fat, then don't. That will limit choices, since most manufacturers use some fat. It is done every day, and more often than not. You can believe in "nature's design" if you want, but you'll have a hard time finding a nutritionist against using animal fat.

I'm from Canada, and it's against the law. There is no animal anything in any mineral, lick tubs, pellets, any manufactured food. Some feed houses, stores, what have you, manufacture pig feed with animal protien in it. They are not allowed to make cattle feed and i think not even sell it.
We can do it, we just have to want to do it.
By the way my cows eat mineral fine without animal fat.
Our summers get real hot and humid, our winters cold and damp, mineral is just fine.

 

[rk]

]
Nope, don't need a refresher....or a dance either. If you don't want to feed animal fat, then don't. That will limit choices, since most manufacturers use some fat. It is done every day, and more often than not. You can believe in "nature's design" if you want, but you'll have a hard time finding a nutritionist against using animal fat.

I'm from Canada, and it's against the law. There is no animal anything in any mineral, lick tubs, pellets, any manufactured food. Some feed houses, stores, what have you, manufacture pig feed with animal protien in it. They are not allowed to make cattle feed and i think not even sell it.
We can do it, we just have to want to do it.
By the way my cows eat mineral fine without animal fat.
Our summers get real hot and humid, our winters cold and damp, mineral is just fine.

That's interesting, rrc. That's a pretty inclusive ban. How long has it been in place?

 

[rockridgecattle]

RK,

It started to get put together after our first BSE case. They, the powers that be, were tossing ideas. Many farmers voiced their opinions. July 12 of this year(2007) it became law. But feed mills (there was the word i was trying to think of last night) started to work towards it earlier because as of July 12 nothing was to be sold with animal products in it. Any left overs would have to be destroyed is my understanding. So the feed mills started producing it much earlier. As well, any imported feed such as protien lick tubs can have no chicken what ever, no animal fat nothing. Strict import bans.
Hillsdown and Randilana or any other canadian farmer could probably explain it better than I.
Farmers were also encouraged with big media blitzes to use up, get rid of any old feed before the date of July 12, 2007
Any feed mill producing cattle feed is not allowed to use anima products for any other animal. IE chicken feed. So now that is all natural as well.
We buy from feed rite our cattle feed, mineral, occaionally some tick tubs. And our chicken supplement. Because they produce cattle feed they can not produce any type of chicken feed with animal by products in it.
Puratone In manitoba on the other hand produces pig feed (they are big in hog barns) with animal protien. They can not produce cattle feed.
After our last discusssion on this i called feedrite and asked about the imported tubs. They said they were clean. I asked him to check with the makers, I'm taking him at his word that he did, and when he called back, he said the makers of the tubs guarantee clean of animal products

 

[bigbull338]

why not just put out a salt block and let the cattle decide if they need more salt. blocks r cheap enough and livestock are smarter than we think

I have not put out a block of salt in 25 years.Loose minerals usually have plenty of salt to meet Cattle's requirements.You can kill 2 birds with one stone by using a Complete loose mineral.

i tryed just putting out the minerals alone no salt.an the cows would eat 50lbs of minerals in 3 days.an never slowed down eating it.so started putting salt out for them.

 

[CWT Angus]

I just compared that label to the Nutrena Right Now Emerald which I use. I too think this one is missing a lot for the price paid. The right now does not use animal fat either, interesting sice they are made by the same company. I do realize these 2 minerals are made to be different for forage types/time of year etc, but they are way off. If I were you I would start shopping around as mentioned. Back to the original question, the salt in the above label is about half of the Right Now,Phosphorous is high- which I was told by the Nutrena rep makes the mineral bitter, copper & selenium are very low, again about half by comparison.
I have a friend that mixes salt to his "complete mineral" as well. What's the point of paying for a complete mineral if you're going to do that? There are so many to choose from. Don't be afraid to shop around.

 

[rk]

RK,

It started to get put together after our first BSE case. They, the powers that be, were tossing ideas. Many farmers voiced their opinions. July 12 of this year(2007) it became law. But feed mills (there was the word i was trying to think of last night) started to work towards it earlier because as of July 12 nothing was to be sold with animal products in it. Any left overs would have to be destroyed is my understanding. So the feed mills started producing it much earlier. As well, any imported feed such as protien lick tubs can have no chicken what ever, no animal fat nothing. Strict import bans.
Hillsdown and Randilana or any other canadian farmer could probably explain it better than I.
Farmers were also encouraged with big media blitzes to use up, get rid of any old feed before the date of July 12, 2007
Any feed mill producing cattle feed is not allowed to use anima products for any other animal. IE chicken feed. So now that is all natural as well.
We buy from feed rite our cattle feed, mineral, occaionally some tick tubs. And our chicken supplement. Because they produce cattle feed they can not produce any type of chicken feed with animal by products in it.
Puratone In manitoba on the other hand produces pig feed (they are big in hog barns) with animal protien. They can not produce cattle feed.
After our last discusssion on this i called feedrite and asked about the imported tubs. They said they were clean. I asked him to check with the makers, I'm taking him at his word that he did, and when he called back, he said the makers of the tubs guarantee clean of animal products

anac.ca/industryissues/feed_ban/qandas.html#a10

I don't intend to be argumentative just for the sake of being so, especially since you're in Canada and I'm not, so I searched around on google about it. It seems like fat is not a SRM? Dunno, it just seems like banning all animal products, whether they're shown to be risk-related or not, seems like an illogical reaction.

 

[rockridgecattle]

i understand not argumentative, but lets look at the big picture here
US had had only a couple of BSE cases. One was even a "spontaeous" BSE case.
Canada has had what 11 or 13 cases since may 2003
R calf claims our feed bans were not good enough or enforced enough because some cows were younger than the 1997 feed ban
I'm no scientist but i have theories as to why the younger animals became infected there are several
1. feed mills chose to disregared the laws
2. feed mills sold old stock for a length of time until it ran out.
3. cross contamination from making dog feed, poultry feed, hog feed and making bovine feed.
4. some farmers had old stock around
5 some farmers thought hey chicken feed, hog feed, dog feed is cheaper than cattle feed and fed it.
Man look at the boards, "my cows eat dog feed...hahahah" "can cattle eat chicken feed" etc.
6. something i might of forgotten

I am leaning towards the stock piling of feed prior to the feed ban being sold later as well as cross contamination, and farmers acting w/o all cylinders firing.

Having said that,
NOW all SRM stuff is elimatied from all animal feed. Including dog, pig, etc.
R calf says we are not strick enough lets go one step further, and eliminate all animal protien from cattle feed.
Lets enforce it by allowing some feed mills to make feed for pigs, that contain animal protien, but not allow them to make cattle feed...make R calf happy, no ability for cross contaimination.
lets go one step further and eliminate the possiblity of feed mills, wholesalers of feed, retail sellers of feed...nothing old in the stores after july 12.
one step further and media awareness blitz to get the farmers involved, use all old feed july 12
END RESULT eliminate the risk of BSE in all cattle by 2017. I think that is the date.
RK you might think it is illogical, but the majority of US cattle producers think national ID is illogical. We do it. The US has not had to contend with as may BSE as canadians. US has not had R calf jumping down our throats saying we are not doing enough.
Now we have gone to the extreme to protect our herds. Illogical or not, this is what we have done to show the world we want to make our beef safe for global export.
Lastly any feed sold, be it dog food, colostrum, cattle, chicken, pig, horse feed has a lot # and that number is recored at every point of sale for tracking purposes

 

[Roadapple]

Go to "Grassfedisbest.com" for another take on wormers,salt, and minerals.

 

[kyblockhead]

Some here assume all minerals are designed to be fed at the same rates but they are not. Most common loose minerals are designed to be fed at 4 oz/head/day, thus, the selenium level of 26.4 ppm which is the legal max. If a mineral is designed to be fed at 2 oz/head/day the selenium level is a max level of 52.8 ppm. You have to know the intake as well as the guaranteed nutrient levels. A product like the 12:12 nutrena mineral that started this discussion usually would not be highly consumed because of the high phophorus level so I would anticipate that the selenium level could certainly be higher if that area is selenium deficient.

 

[TexasBred]

Other than the issue with palatability and possible rancidity, what would be the concern with animal fat?

Fats or usually put in mineral to hold down dust and give it a bit of water proofing. Mineral oil, soybean oil or corn oil will do the same job. We're not feeding for energy with mineral. I personally don't know why any feed manufacturer would put anything in their feed with "animal" products of any kind simply because of public opinion especially when there are alternatives that work as well.

 

[kyblockhead]

I agree that I don't think we should use animal fat due to perception and it certainly isn't superior at dust control than other vegetable oil, mineral oil or petrolatum, however, it probably is a little cheaper but only a couple bucks/ton of mineral.

 

[blacksnake]

I have the tag for Cargill Right Now Bronze. It also has animal fat listed as an ingredient.
I thought the ban on animal ingredients in feeds was just limited to material from mammals. Maybe this fat is from chicken, turkey, fish, etc.
I really don't understand how Cargill is reporting the min and max for sodium. The sodium content in salt is approx. 40% (23/58.5) so the sodium reported on the bag would always be at least 40% of the value reported for salt.

 

[TexasBred]

Black....different companies use different "standards" for various ingredients. You're right in that sodium usually is 39-40% in salt...some may be less....in this case they are just below what the sodium would calculate on the low end of the salt guarantee. Feed companies usually give themselves lots of leeway on the guarantees when they can. In this case they're cutting it pretty close. Strange how they would guarantee sodium (not required in many states) and not give you a guarantee on so many of the other nutrients that you would like to know about.

 

[kyblockhead]

The law provides guidance on how much leeway the manufacturer has on its guarantees. You don't have to guarantee most things but if you decide to guarantee a nutrient they give you the range of accuracy you must have.

 

[TexasBred]

That's true but it also varies from state to state. On another thread a company put guarantees on things that had no nutritional value whatsoever at the low levels guaranteed yet gave no guarantees on some of the minerals that would be important especially when it came to the price being paid for the mineral.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

It's almost impossible to find show feed without animal fat. I've started mixing my own. Very annoying :x

I'm feeding "Black Bag" mineral at $8.50 a bag, as well as salt/mineral blocks which are kept out at all times. The loose mineral I ration.

 

[TexasBred]

Green. I just checked the tag of the show feed made by Bluebonnet Feeds located in Ardmore, Okla. It shows to have soyoil only. Don't know if you can buy it in your area or what you think of their feeds but you might want to check them out on their website.

 

[greenwillowhereford II]

Green. I just checked the tag of the show feed made by Bluebonnet Feeds located in Ardmore, Okla. It shows to have soyoil only. Don't know if you can buy it in your area or what you think of their feeds but you might want to check them out on their website.

Thanks. I've never seen it in my area.

 

[rk]

Animal fat is a common ingredient....I'm surprised it has such a negative image with some folks.

 

[TexasBred]

At one time animal fat was a common ingredient. At one time Purina even advertised themselves as the animal fat people. Today "perception" is everything with all the bad press the cattle/beef industry has gone thru. I just think any prudent feed company would do whatever necessary to ensure they didn't do anything to make people be concerned about their feed/minerals, etc. Plus there is no real advantage in using animal fat other than it could now be a little cheaper than vegetable fat. The nutrient profile on the two are almost identical.