Sale barn ?

[bball]

I-45 is still open.
bball think that you could accumulate to the heat before we had to cull you.

I did it once, I think I could manage again, it's the wife and kids that I'm concerned with ;-)

 

[js1234]

No but you still have to pay the commission and fees.

That varys from one barn to the next and depends on how well you know the owners and how much business you do there. It's not something I do every week, but when I do it I've never paid commision or any of the fee's.

I have nothing against it, but for the average cow calf person I don't see a need for it unless you truly are getting done wrong by a barn. 99% of the time, like it or not you are getting exactly what your cattle are worth that day. The need for bidding on your own and buying back is more of something a trader like myself has to do when I would be better off taking something back home and feeding it a while longer than to take what I might be getting.

exactly.

 

[js1234]

I don't like to sell anything at a sale barn if I can avoid it. I think that there are some insider shenanigans going on in many cases. A person selling cattle may be at that sale once or twice every seven or eight months. The order buyers are there every week. Who do you think he's going to cater to? I like to tell a man what I want for my cattle and shake his hand and close the deal. I spoke to the Angus rep in Texas and he told me to bring photos of my cattle, Angus source documents, and explain to the sale barn manager what I'm bringing up before I bring them. So I'll try that next time. I don't like sale barn surprises.

thats a very naive view of the mechanics of an auction yard. however, you're not alone as many people with limited knowledge of the business as a default position assume their cattle sold below their expectation due to some sort of larceny.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I don't like to sell anything at a sale barn if I can avoid it. I think that there are some insider shenanigans going on in many cases. A person selling cattle may be at that sale once or twice every seven or eight months. The order buyers are there every week. Who do you think he's going to cater to? I like to tell a man what I want for my cattle and shake his hand and close the deal. I spoke to the Angus rep in Texas and he told me to bring photos of my cattle, Angus source documents, and explain to the sale barn manager what I'm bringing up before I bring them. So I'll try that next time. I don't like sale barn surprises.

thats a very naive view of the mechanics of an auction yard. however, you're not alone as many people with limited knowledge of the business as a default position assume their cattle sold below their expectation due to some sort of larceny.

:nod: :nod: :nod: :clap: :clap:

 

[Caustic Burno]

I don't like to sell anything at a sale barn if I can avoid it. I think that there are some insider shenanigans going on in many cases. A person selling cattle may be at that sale once or twice every seven or eight months. The order buyers are there every week. Who do you think he's going to cater to? I like to tell a man what I want for my cattle and shake his hand and close the deal. I spoke to the Angus rep in Texas and he told me to bring photos of my cattle, Angus source documents, and explain to the sale barn manager what I'm bringing up before I bring them. So I'll try that next time. I don't like sale barn surprises.

thats a very naive view of the mechanics of an auction yard. however, you're not alone as many people with limited knowledge of the business as a default position assume their cattle sold below their expectation due to some sort of larceny.

You nailed it.
The problem the seedstock producer gets in he forgets the commercial cowman is the customer
and drives the industry. The seedstock producer does not have an unique product that can't be purchased
down the road. If you want more money you have to load a better cow on the trailer be it order buyer or
back to the farm. You are going to take a hit on a straight Angus calf going to the feedlot as well.
It will have to spend more days on feed than the crossbred calf that will grade.
You are not going to beat a man at his own game and they have it down to a science.
Cowmen are going to bid what they are worth to them not you.
Pasture Blindness and Papers have got a many a mans feelings hurt.

 

[greybeard]

Nothing on this Earth is worth one cent more than what buyers are willing to pay for it--period. That, is what sets the true and realistic value and price.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Nothing on this Earth is worth one cent more than what buyers are willing to pay for it--period. That, is what sets the true and realistic value and price.

Yes, of anything.

 

[dun]

Nothing on this Earth is worth one cent more than what buyers are willing to pay for it--period. That, is what sets the true and realistic value and price.

Yes, of anything.

That is true, but equally true is "Barnum was right"

 

[TexasBred]

Nothing on this Earth is worth one cent more than what buyers are willing to pay for it--period. That, is what sets the true and realistic value and price.

That's true but someone it times a little help from someone else to get it to that price. They are also always looking for a bargain. If it's my animal it's my job to see that they don't get one.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

THIS is the TRUTH. I hope every member here memorizes what CB wrote.

You nailed it.
The problem the seedstock producer gets in he forgets the commercial cowman is the customer
and drives the industry. The seedstock producer does not have an unique product that can't be purchased
down the road. If you want more money you have to load a better cow on the trailer be it order buyer or
back to the farm. You are going to take a hit on a straight Angus calf going to the feedlot as well.
It will have to spend more days on feed than the crossbred calf that will grade.
You are not going to beat a man at his own game and they have it down to a science.
Cowmen are going to bid what they are worth to them not you.
Pasture Blindness and Papers have got a many a mans feelings hurt.

 

[Brentp]

An auction market is open market capitalism in its simplest form. Whatever an animal sells for is what it was worth on that particular day in that particular market. That doesn't mean that that amount is its true value, as sometimes an item (be it calf or some other item) can be resold for an immediate profit elsewhere. With that being said, while the market generally sets a fair price, it can potentially not be as kind to the average smaller cattleman. If two buyers that are fairly friendly with each other come in on a particular day with an order for slaughter bulls for example, they're probably not gonna ride the bids on each other and may even alternate on bidding. If there's not a lot of other interest in that particular class of animal on that day, then prices may be a bit lower for that class.

Another example - buyer has an order for 5 weights at $X. He's been buying backside of $X all day. His buddy is selling his calves that day and asks for some help. Buyer can pay $X+ for his buddy's calves, or ride them up without fear of getting stuck with them overpriced. Reason is his overall order still averages out at $X or back of $X. The average guy with 25 head has no idea about this nor even realizes he should ride his up if they're going too cheap. If I'm selling anything I'm gonna make sure that whatever order buyers are there that I know are aware that I have some cattle selling that day. Nothing wrong with it but that's the way it is.

 

[js1234]

good post.
any number of things can contribute to what any given set of cattle might bring that may appear to be "outside" what many view as market forces. from buyers being under their money, killer buyers colluding, sellers running their own offering, auctioneers pulling phantom bids, order buyers getting blocked so they get chilly, guys hung with 42,000lbs. so they blow their brains out to square up a load, cattle standing too long and shrinking, the attorney 20 miles down the road with 80 acres stopping in to buy 30 head of 6 weights and the fact that he got ran to 20/cwt. over the money means nothing to him because they were consigned by the ranch who lets him takes clients quail hunting and he needed a write-off anyway, the rain was bad to the south and a couple feed yards are bedding cattle so the last thing on their mind is more high risk sale barn 4 weights, the local kill plant that grinds bulls is 2 days behind due to a USDA hold on the fabrication floor and tell their buyers stay home, or anything else that might allow what a particular draft of cattle actually bring and what the market is to deviate $5/cwt. either direction. all of my little examples are happening within the industry everyday but with very few exceptions are merely pieces of the puzzle that shape the market as a whole and unless one producer is just lucky or unlucky depending on the instance, it won't directly affect their cattle or how they sell in particular but rather to set the trading range of any given week at any given place on the relevant class of cattle. when everything is stripped away, with very few exceptions in relation to the many thousands sold on any given day nationally, cattle bring exactly what they are worth as per what the market will bear.

 

[kenny thomas]

good post.
any number of things can contribute to what any given set of cattle might bring that may appear to be "outside" what many view as market forces. from buyers being under their money, killer buyers colluding, sellers running their own offering, auctioneers pulling phantom bids, order buyers getting blocked so they get chilly, guys hung with 42,000lbs. so they blow their brains out to square up a load, cattle standing too long and shrinking, the attorney 20 miles down the road with 80 acres stopping in to buy 30 head of 6 weights and the fact that he got ran to 20/cwt. over the money means nothing to him because they were consigned by the ranch who lets him takes clients quail hunting and he needed a write-off anyway, the rain was bad to the south and a couple feed yards are bedding cattle so the last thing on their mind is more high risk sale barn 4 weights, the local kill plant that grinds bulls is 2 days behind due to a USDA hold on the fabrication floor and tell their buyers stay home, or anything else that might allow what a particular draft of cattle actually bring and what the market is to deviate $5/cwt. either direction. all of my little examples are happening within the industry everyday but with very few exceptions are merely pieces of the puzzle that shape the market as a whole and unless one producer is just lucky or unlucky depending on the instance, it won't directly affect their cattle or how they sell in particular but rather to set the trading range of any given week at any given place on the relevant class of cattle. when everything is stripped away, with very few exceptions in relation to the many thousands sold on any given day nationally, cattle bring exactly what they are worth as per what the market will bear.

Excellent Post.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

good post.
any number of things can contribute to what any given set of cattle might bring that may appear to be "outside" what many view as market forces. from buyers being under their money, killer buyers colluding, sellers running their own offering, auctioneers pulling phantom bids, order buyers getting blocked so they get chilly, guys hung with 42,000lbs. so they blow their brains out to square up a load, cattle standing too long and shrinking, the attorney 20 miles down the road with 80 acres stopping in to buy 30 head of 6 weights and the fact that he got ran to 20/cwt. over the money means nothing to him because they were consigned by the ranch who lets him takes clients quail hunting and he needed a write-off anyway, the rain was bad to the south and a couple feed yards are bedding cattle so the last thing on their mind is more high risk sale barn 4 weights, the local kill plant that grinds bulls is 2 days behind due to a USDA hold on the fabrication floor and tell their buyers stay home, or anything else that might allow what a particular draft of cattle actually bring and what the market is to deviate $5/cwt. either direction. all of my little examples are happening within the industry everyday but with very few exceptions are merely pieces of the puzzle that shape the market as a whole and unless one producer is just lucky or unlucky depending on the instance, it won't directly affect their cattle or how they sell in particular but rather to set the trading range of any given week at any given place on the relevant class of cattle. when everything is stripped away, with very few exceptions in relation to the many thousands sold on any given day nationally, cattle bring exactly what they are worth as per what the market will bear.

Excellent Post.

Yes it is.

 

[Caustic Burno]

An auction market is open market capitalism in its simplest form. Whatever an animal sells for is what it was worth on that particular day in that particular market. That doesn't mean that that amount is its true value, as sometimes an item (be it calf or some other item) can be resold for an immediate profit elsewhere. With that being said, while the market generally sets a fair price, it can potentially not be as kind to the average smaller cattleman. If two buyers that are fairly friendly with each other come in on a particular day with an order for slaughter bulls for example, they're probably not gonna ride the bids on each other and may even alternate on bidding. If there's not a lot of other interest in that particular class of animal on that day, then prices may be a bit lower for that class.

Another example - buyer has an order for 5 weights at $X. He's been buying backside of $X all day. His buddy is selling his calves that day and asks for some help. Buyer can pay $X+ for his buddy's calves, or ride them up without fear of getting stuck with them overpriced. Reason is his overall order still averages out at $X or back of $X. The average guy with 25 head has no idea about this nor even realizes he should ride his up if they're going too cheap. If I'm selling anything I'm gonna make sure that whatever order buyers are there that I know are aware that I have some cattle selling that day. Nothing wrong with it but that's the way it is.

Good post freight plays a big part today as well
if the kill plant 200 miles away is full and they have to ride 400 miles
we pay the freight.