Sale Barn polices?

[Ojp6]

I don't want to be argumentive, but if the animal sold get a few cent less, but weights more with water in it's belly, what's the difference? The fellow that Bigfoottalked about making calves suffer showed his nature. My nature is to treat people and animals fairly. Yes, without water, it may not kill them, but it's not right. maybe if someone would move you around the country in a car or truck under stressful conditions for you and kept food and water from you for 24 hrs , you would have a chang of mind. When I died, and stand before the Lord, amimal cruelty shouldn't be an issue, because my heart tells me it's not right to withhold food, water, and shelter from an animal. Or for that matter, Chaining a dog to a box, keeping birds in a cage in the house. You get the picture. Peace Brother. even if I don't agree with your practice, I used the word cruel in the lighter sense for I believe most farmers treat their animals good. God had to put a sense of caring in their heart's or they wouldn't want to be livestock farmers

We sold them both ways. Consistently got more money for the cattle that had lost their water weight prior to selling. Kill plants want to buy shrunk cattle, there is just a lot less risk involved for them. Better not sell anymore cows to kill because you are selling them into cruelty. A lot of cows will leave the barn after the sale, go on a 10+ hour ride, and then not get any water before they go to the kill floor. By sending the animals to kill you are contributing to the "animal cruelty". If it hurt the cows why would it be such a common practice? Nobody can afford to be cruel to a 2500 dollar fat steer if it might die.

All I'm saying is that cattle are off water for whatever reason all the time and don't really need water for up to 48 hours of they had been drinking like normal before that. I'm sure you can find how long a cow can be off water without issues somewhere on the internet. I think it has something to do with water storage in their rumen or something but there is a reason why it bothers them less for the first while than it would a different animal.


And that story from Bigfoot is bad. If it doesn't make you cringe to catch one in the gate you have some problems. Does he still come to the yard?

 

[TexasBred]

I'm sympathetic with you, but perfectly healthy cows don't drop dead.

They will down here BF....heat stroke. Some of the barns down here are so hot back in the summer time in the pen area you can hardly breath. No telling how much weight one looses before being sold. But the owner gets paid for anything that walks off the trailer.

 

[PAaugus]

Thanks for all the replies, now If I could change the subject slightly. A survey of sorts. Does your sale barn post or have avaiable a written policy? What the yardage and insurance fees cover? when do they take liabilty , Do they contact you if a animal dies in a certain # of hours, Do they shown proof of death, or are you taking their word? If insured, how do they paid? Avg price x guessed weight? If an animal dies are you charged a p/u rendering fee? Any other thoughts. If you don't know, please state that too. I believe farmers should know these things. A $1500 hit doesn't go down easy, when you have no reason to think you caused it.
Note to the webmaster. Maybe you could set up a survey here where we just check yes or no to answers.

 

[highgrit]

I don't want to be argumentive, but if the animal sold get a few cent less, but weights more with water in it's belly, what's the difference? The fellow that Bigfoottalked about making calves suffer showed his nature. My nature is to treat people and animals fairly. Yes, without water, it may not kill them, but it's not right. maybe if someone would move you around the country in a car or truck under stressful conditions for you and kept food and water from you for 24 hrs , you would have a chang of mind. When I died, and stand before the Lord, amimal cruelty shouldn't be an issue, because my heart tells me it's not right to withhold food, water, and shelter from an animal. Or for that matter, Chaining a dog to a box, keeping birds in a cage in the house. You get the picture. Peace Brother. even if I don't agree with your practice, I used the word cruel in the lighter sense for I believe most farmers treat their animals good. God had to put a sense of caring in their heart's or they wouldn't want to be livestock farmers

We sold them both ways. Consistently got more money for the cattle that had lost their water weight prior to selling. Kill plants want to buy shrunk cattle, there is just a lot less risk involved for them. Better not sell anymore cows to kill because you are selling them into cruelty. A lot of cows will leave the barn after the sale, go on a 10+ hour ride, and then not get any water before they go to the kill floor. By sending the animals to kill you are contributing to the "animal cruelty". If it hurt the cows why would it be such a common practice? Nobody can afford to be cruel to a 2500 dollar fat steer if it might die.

All I'm saying is that cattle are off water for whatever reason all the time and don't really need water for up to 48 hours of they had been drinking like normal before that. I'm sure you can find how long a cow can be off water without issues somewhere on the internet. I think it has something to do with water storage in their rumen or something but there is a reason why it bothers them less for the first while than it would a different animal.


And that story from Bigfoot is bad. If it doesn't make you cringe to catch one in the gate you have some problems. Does he still come to the yard?

If I see someone mistreating an animal I let them know what I think and make them stop. Nothing pizzes me off more than a hotshot with a hotshot.

 

[bbirder]

Have you talked to the barn owner and requested an answer on the insurance? You should be covered from the time they take possession.

 

[PAaugus]

I only talked to the manager on Wednesday, she told me she would have him call. So far he has not. But in fairness, Thursday and Friday were sale days. I want to give the man a fair chance like I would of wanted. I was a business man for 40 years too. But, It would have only taken a minute of his time to call and say " I know you have questions , but I am tied up Thur & Fri . I will get back to you on XX ""

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

We sold a steer through a big auction yard. When I got the check, it was half of what it should have been. I called the yard to inquire why our calf sold for salvage. They said they would look into it. I got a call a few days later, or maybe it was the next day, seems the calf was limping when he went through the ring and they sold him for the floor price. Since the calf got off the trailer sound, they send me a check for the difference on the average that day and what I actually got, paid by the insurance. Had I not called and inquired, I would have never known and been angry and lost out.
Hopefully the barn manager gets back to you. Be diligent about getting answers. And hopefully you will get some answers (and some cash).

 

[bmoore87]

If you know she was healthy coming off the trailer I would probably push on it with the owner. If it was a hot day she could have died if other cattle were bulling on her from being in a mixed yard. Worst comes to worst they have a vet do an autopsy and says she died from something else.

 

[bbirder]

PA,
Was the cow weighed off the trailer at the barn? If not, you have no proof of her size. Hopefully the barn will work with you. I would stay on them hard, including what you say she weighed, because they did not document it as it should have been. They s/b covered by insurance if their premiums were paid up. If not, sorry for them. They owe you.

 

[cowgirl8]

They should pay...
One time we got our ticket and it had a 'white steer' on the ticket... Since we dont have any white calves and this one and a few others happened to be small and there were also no small calves in our load, we took the ticket to the office. They scrambled around and turns out, a few of our calves lost their tickets and they subbed in others that lost their tickets. The load of calves we had belonged to our kids and they were out of pet cows. I had pictures of every calf in the pasture. We knew the approx weights too....so, they coughed out new calves with new weights..
Since, i video the calves coming out of the trailer and down the alley....Its a hassel, but i will have proof what came out of our trailer, they were healthy and not limping. In the past we've had calves docked for this or that....how do you prove it, well, let me show you the video...

 

[Williamsv]

That is a great idea. I don't video, but I do make pictures on my iPad of the ones I send.

 

[cowgirl8]

With prices like they are, you can get hosed out of a lot of money. That one load we could have lost over 1000......I try to video with numbers too...just so they cant argue......1208 is a big black w/f steer, and they have 1208 as a small black heifer....... excuse me, let me show you the video... They tell me a cow brings way lower due to injury, let me show you the video of her not injured coming out of our trailer into your pens...
My husband can take a load to the sale and i always ask, what will the check be. He can get it within 100 every time.....without looking at the ticket, he can look at a check and know if everyone sold like they should..

 

[DLD]

When we unload high risk cattle (unhealthy, unsound, very thin, etc...), we mark the ticket "as is"', and have the hauler sign it. This signifies that they understand that if they die or sell poorly that we (the sale barn) will not be responsible - if they don't agree they're free to take them home. If we don't mark the ticket "as is" then we are responsible and if something happens to your cattle, we do make it right, either with insurance or out of our pocket. We mark very few cattle as is - maybe one in 200-300, I'd guess. We lose far less than that - on a very hot, very long day we've lost 3 out of 1200. Most weeks we don't lose any.

IMO, you should be paid for your cow.

Yes, full cattle get docked, and no, 9 hours without water shouldn't normally hurt a healthy cow, even on a hot day. We have water in our recieving pens (and unless they're loaded within a few hours after they sell they go back on water) so if you bring them to us starved for water they might end up full anyway. Your best bet is to give them access to water before you bring them, so they're most likely to maintain a natural degree of fill.

 

[bmoore87]

When we unload high risk cattle (unhealthy, unsound, very thin, etc...), we mark the ticket "as is"', and have the hauler sign it. This signifies that they understand that if they die or sell poorly that we (the sale barn) will not be responsible - if they don't agree they're free to take them home. If we don't mark the ticket "as is" then we are responsible and if something happens to your cattle, we do make it right, either with insurance or out of our pocket. We mark very few cattle as is - maybe one in 200-300, I'd guess. We lose far less than that - on a very hot, very long day we've lost 3 out of 1200. Most weeks we don't lose any.

Wish my barn did that, seems like a simple idea to clear any problems up ahead of time.

 

[highgrit]

That is a great idea. I don't video, but I do make pictures on my iPad of the ones I send.

Mrs. Williams we deal with someone that will make it right, and I'd expect a phone call if one of our cows died at his barn. And he'll go out of his way to treat you fair. I don't like having to bid against him for cows, but it all works out in the end.

 

[PAaugus]

Well the owner called. After thanking him for calling, I asked him if he knew what was going on. He said the yardman seen the cow breathing fast and her tongue hanging out, so he put her in special pen where there was water and an outside or near outside pen ( I couldn't tell which he meant.) I said that doesn't make sense because my drop off slip showed that pen # before the cow was unloaded. His response was he didn't know about that. I believe most cows were breathing fast that day because it was so hot. I told him she was fine when she walked off the trailer. He said thay decided she was an AS IS cow and not insured. And one person might say she was OK and the next say she was sick, so he was saying she was AS iS cow. Next I asked him about the manger saying 'Cows die here all the time" He confirmed that and stated " we lose 3 or 4 every " (sounded like he started to say week ) Then he stopped hisself. Next I said from mine point of view, I had no proof the cow died, I would have like to seen it. Then he starting cursing and if I didn't believe him, to take my business elsewhere.
I ask him about the insurance, we get charged for. What' s it for. Basically I got the same answer from him as his manager, he stated it we pulled on the market lot, and a animal gets out, The insurance covers it. When I ask about what else it covers, he stated he was the only market in the area that offered insurnace . I pointed out the insurance didn't do much good in this case, if it only covers animals that break out. Long story short, he's not goin to pay. I told him I was thinking of contacting a farming newpaper so they could do a story about sale barn policies. He started cursing even more. Saying people like me cause the Animal Cruelty and public to get all worked up. Claiming this is the way sale barns do things since his pappy's time.
A couple things that puzzel me. He stated that he and I both are losers in this situation. But he has to pay to have the animal buried at the landfill. And he doesn't charge us for that. But then he mentions something about a rendering (with a comapny name ) and something about 65 cents/lb twice. ( which doesn't make sense, but it didn't sink in at that time )
What puzzels me is, if he's paying to have 3-4 animals buried a week ? Wouldn't you as a businessman change something? I don't understand how rendering works. Do they get paid for the dead animals. Especially nice fats ones ? I remember 30 - 40 years ago, we had to pay to have dead cows taken away. Well there were other items mentioned but I am sure you guys are tired of this story.

I can live without the $1500.00 I'll look for a new sale barn, he has shown his true colors.
My Advice to you guys is find out NOW what your sale barn policy is. I suggested that they shoud take Phone # 's, contact owner's with in 12 hrs , or if there was something wrong with it, before it dies ) next take a picture of the dead cow to prove it died. He defended their actions as that the way it has always been ( since pappy's time ) My thoughts are maybe it's the way he says, but it could also be a way for them to hide something else. Since he got hostile, when I bought up my point of view, I have to wonder.

HELL AWAITS, So Sad! Do not use the Lord's Name in Vain!

 

[Son of Butch]

Is the yard responsible?
Maybe
Does anybody know exactly what is their legal requirements?
Yes, a local judge would know.

If you think you can prove your claim, you have the right to have a Small Claims Court Judge settle the issue for you.

Seems to me, unless otherwise noted upon receiving the animal, the Sale Barn is responsible after it's employees have
taken care, custody and control of the animal. That's why they have insurance.
If they weren't going to take responsibility they should have either refused delivery or given you written notice on the
receiving papers that they are not responsible or an As Is notation. But it doesn't matter what I think.
That's why there are small claims courts.

 

[bbirder]

PA,
Do you think you could give us the location of that barn? Just asking. :deadhorse:

 

[skyhightree1]

PA,
Do you think you could give us the location of that barn? Just asking. :deadhorse:

Surely he will because what farmer wants another farmer to potentially go through the same thing.

 

[PAaugus]

I won't tell you the LIVESTOCK MARKET's name, but's in right beside Interstate 81 @ the 5 mi marker very close to Greencastle, PA It's well known for 1st Friday of the month feeder sales. I have seen trailers there from NY. ( at least a 5 hr drive ) Thankfully they don't lose feeders or those guys would really be disappointed