While at a sale barn today in southern ok I watched a group ten or so of maybe 14-15 mounth old black bulls sell they were weighing 800-900 lbs.They sold for .85-100,but what surprised me was that at least half were requested to be semen check by the the buyers.So I guess if they pass they will be going back to the farm to be cow-fresheners.Why would that many people buy a crappy little bull when they could get a half decent bull for a few hundred dollars more?? :???:
Sale barn bulls
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Brandonm22
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Most of the people who buy at the stockyard EVERY WEEK are just in the business of trading. They assemble groups of cows from amoung the $$ per pound cows; breed them to "a good Angus (Hereford or Charolais) bull" they bought through the yard.....then they try to find a private treaty buyer who will buy this "good set of bred cows" or "pairs". If that fails they run the cows back thru the sale when they expect the seasonal high. They will be buying again when they think the market has bottomed. 800-900 lbs are a real good investment; because they can spend 90 days breeding trader cows and a couple of months later they weigh 1400 -1600 lbs. An $800 initial investment.......six months and 30 bred cows later he is $950 run back through the sale.
Workinonit Farm
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EAT BEEF":2z23istk said:
I know 2 people who do this. (I would not emulate their management practices). Their reason is, "you can get a good black Angus bull much cheaper that way". After several years of this it is very noticable in the quality, or lack thereof, in their animals.
These same 2 people don't believe in vaccinations, de-worming or minerals. They say "its a waste of money". Yet they continue to complain about the lousy prices they get for their calves when they haul them to market, and are always baffled by poor-doing heifers and cows, sick and dead calves, snotty noses, chronic coughing and bouts of diarrhea.
Katherine
Brandonm22
I traded a few cows(mostly calves) when I lived back east,but never wanted to get a s--ty reputation.Sure there were some shadey deals,but they don't compare to what I've seen out here
I don't think these guys were traders but I don't go to that sale barn much so I'm not sure if they are or not.I think some of them were money makers if you would have cut them and put them on feed as they were very thin ,but not sickly.I just can't imagine useing them as bulls. I've been to look at some cows that were traders here and some of the things that come out of their mouths I don't know how they can keep a straight face,but I guess someone belives them every once in a while.
I traded a few cows(mostly calves) when I lived back east,but never wanted to get a s--ty reputation.Sure there were some shadey deals,but they don't compare to what I've seen out here
I don't think these guys were traders but I don't go to that sale barn much so I'm not sure if they are or not.I think some of them were money makers if you would have cut them and put them on feed as they were very thin ,but not sickly.I just can't imagine useing them as bulls. I've been to look at some cows that were traders here and some of the things that come out of their mouths I don't know how they can keep a straight face,but I guess someone belives them every once in a while.
DOC HARRIS
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There are some people who are like small children - they will PUSH and PUSH as hard as they can, until SOMEONE provides a "WALL of Disapproval", and puts a STOP to it! :stop: Right NOW! :!: Discipline - which they probably did not experience as children growing up, and no one said. "THAT'S ENOUGH!" ... and MEANT IT! You can see this activity in today's Youth. Dr. Benjamin Spock started this destructive behavior in his Demonic Book on Child Raising in 1946, and we are reaping the results two and three generations down the line. No respect - no consideration - no self-discipline - no thoughts for anyone but themselves!EAT BEEF":32zhhlcz said:
It is a spin-off of the old 1960's precept of "If it feels good - DO IT!" With these Trader's it becomes, "If I can make a dime - DO IT". Makes no difference if someone else gets hurt or is unfairly used, - FORGET THEM! It's ALL ME! NO. 1.
Those are the symptoms. The cures are more difficult and require some aggressive discipline and actions on the parts of lots of people. I can't see it happening, unfortunately. Too many years of "Unrestrained Self-Expression!"
Thank God my three sons are grown and are experiencing their OWN kids and grandkids problems. The troubles have invaded EVERY business and interprise activity in the world. I doubt that The Lord is going to continue to let these things continue much longer.
I could be wrong.
DOC HARRIS
Brandonm22
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Hey, I am not by any means condemning what the traders do. They buy culls especially when the market is weak or down. The more buyers the better for everyone. In fact I have considered doing that myself. There is nothing necessarily dishonest about it IF you will tell prospective buyers that these are put together sets of cattle and you don't lie about age, source, vaccinations, preg checks, etc. As for the bulls being lean, that just means compensatory gains and a bigger profit when he grows out and fills out. You can see some pretty sucky looking cows in trader herds; but generally a trader herd is a reflection of what the Cattlemen in the area are producing SINCE traders by definition don't keep their own replacements. When they sell "good bred heifers" it is generally (usually thin) market heifers they picked up when stocker prices were weak. They put them on good grass, fill them out, and get them bred.
novatech
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There are a lot of very good pure bred bulls that go through the sale barn only because the producer cannot or does not want to go through the process of marketing. You can pick up some darn good bulls this way.
Just because some cattlemen make their living buying and selling through the sale barn does not mean they are dishonest. More than likely it means they are very good professional cattlemen that know what they are doing. These are not seed stock producers they are commercial producers.
Just because some cattlemen make their living buying and selling through the sale barn does not mean they are dishonest. More than likely it means they are very good professional cattlemen that know what they are doing. These are not seed stock producers they are commercial producers.
Australian Cattleman
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We don't sell our bulls that are finished through the saleyards. We send tham straight to the meatworks. Generally through our saleyards the bulls usually have something wrong with them. I get a number of potential buyers that come along to look at my bulls. I ask them now are they going to waste my time or are they genuine. I stick to my price and too bad if they go elsewhere. If I go looking for a bull I don't try and beat the breeder down in price. I simply just don't buy a bull thats too expensive.
Colin
Colin
Australian Cattleman":shl4gyav said:
Same here, if you can buy the same quality for a better price, by all means go elsewhere. If a bull don't make it as a bull in my opinion he goes directly to slaughter, I can't have cull bulls with my tattoo in their ear running the world over for all to see.
Neighbor sold an excellent older bull last year at the salebarn. He had retained so many of his daughters that he needed to go. With the desire for virgin bulls in this area, no one was interested in him as a breeder. But very everyone bull of that quality there are probably a couple of hundred that should have been steers and not left intact.
In most cases, buying bulls for breeding via the sale barn isn;t any different then buying cull cows out of the kill pen.
In most cases, buying bulls for breeding via the sale barn isn;t any different then buying cull cows out of the kill pen.
novatech
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Yet that bull of your neighbors would have been an excellent buy for someone that new the history of the bull?dun":zd7iwo0e said:
grannysoo
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We sold our last bull at the salebarn. Fine animal, no problems, great breeder. Comparing what the market was bringing at that time to what private sales were, we chose the salebarn. No waiting, no problems, got check the same day.
It's not always a bad thing...
It's not always a bad thing...
greenwillowhereford II
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I've known of some very good bulls going through just because of age.
My church is surrounded on two sides by a pasture which is stocked by a trader. There are generally some pretty nice looking cows, including some of the beefiest Longhorns I've ever seen. Usually a mixed multitude. However, he has one of the most sway-backed, cow headed, hatchet reared, bulls I've ever seen, and no doubt he sells those cows as "bred to a black bull." But if folks could see the bull, they'd not be nearly so excited about it.
And as grannysoo said, sometimes a heavy old bull will bring more at the salebarn. My brother just sold one, a five year old, for over $1,400 at the salebarn.
My church is surrounded on two sides by a pasture which is stocked by a trader. There are generally some pretty nice looking cows, including some of the beefiest Longhorns I've ever seen. Usually a mixed multitude. However, he has one of the most sway-backed, cow headed, hatchet reared, bulls I've ever seen, and no doubt he sells those cows as "bred to a black bull." But if folks could see the bull, they'd not be nearly so excited about it.
And as grannysoo said, sometimes a heavy old bull will bring more at the salebarn. My brother just sold one, a five year old, for over $1,400 at the salebarn.
greenwillowhereford II":2ggl6f7c said:
When we sold out in 84 and moved back to the desert, the neighbor hauled all of his cows to the salebarn and we cut the fence and ran ours over to his place. I stopped by there about 5 years later and he still had a lot of the cows he had bought from us, but he had the sorriest looking batch of younger cows and calves I've ever seen. He'ld gone back to his old practice of buying whatever cheap bull he could find at the salebarn as his herd bull.
I was so disgusted I never went by there again.
backhoeboogie
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There were a lot of registered angus bulls at the sale Friday. A lot of non-registered too. All in all there were probably 140 or so come thru druing the 11 hours I was there. Atleast a dozen were good gentle bulls. Some were just folks changing bulls and some were breed prospects. Everything went as packers. Packer prices are good. I don't think anyone there was looking for a breeder although some looked great if you like that breed. It is the time of year to part with the bull for folks who attempt spring calving. A lot of bulls come through the sale at this time.
There were three really nice Char bulls and one went for a terminal bull. I don't fault the old guy who took him. He was a good buy, good looking bull and gentle. You could easily pay twice as much if you bought him from one of the horse traders. The breeder selling him retained a bunch of his heifers.
Papers were announced and some went up and got the papers on the animals they bought.
If a really good brangus bull with papers (equivalent to the quality I saw) had come through, I may have taken him. You can see the steers most of these animals sired when they come through and make up your mind about the animal. You don't see the results like that when you buy a 16 month old bull for high dollar prices. I don't blame folks for taking a good deal when they see it, so long as they don't buy junk.
There were three really nice Char bulls and one went for a terminal bull. I don't fault the old guy who took him. He was a good buy, good looking bull and gentle. You could easily pay twice as much if you bought him from one of the horse traders. The breeder selling him retained a bunch of his heifers.
Papers were announced and some went up and got the papers on the animals they bought.
If a really good brangus bull with papers (equivalent to the quality I saw) had come through, I may have taken him. You can see the steers most of these animals sired when they come through and make up your mind about the animal. You don't see the results like that when you buy a 16 month old bull for high dollar prices. I don't blame folks for taking a good deal when they see it, so long as they don't buy junk.
Yes most of us have seen a good bull or two run thru the sale barn.The point was these bulls were not good bulls.The only thing they had going for them was a sack full of nuts.If you want to buy your bulls at the sale barn at least buy good ones.
ALACOWMAN
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aint it funny how fertile dinks can be.. ive seen em where their nutts where the biggest thing about em. :lol:EAT BEEF":l3rv3enl said:
Avalon
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Ok, Ive culled yearling bulls before by taking them to the sale barn. I just cant see putting my name on something that developes a structural fualt ant any age. Only in the last year have I found that some bulls went to people for breeding. My policy used to be no papers, no fertility test.... Looks like I'm going to have to order a large set of banders and say NO TESTICLES EITHER. It does our breeds NO GOOD to allow people to breed to cheap inferior bulls. It hurts the market and the whole industry. I cant help but think that if I had cut that bull last fall. The guy might have come and purchased a real breeding bull from me later. As it is, that bull that he should have come and bought from me in the spring will be in my feedlot until one of the fall consignment sales or someone else picks him up for fall breeding. Just make my production cost go up.
TexasBred
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Boogie...what sale did you go to? Sounds like they had a huge run.
HOSS
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backhoeboogie":3v167ad8 said:
This is how I sold my last bull. Good breeder, very gentle and very good phenotypically. Low BW and good weaning weight to boot. He was just getting older and his physical size made it tough on breeding the new set of heifers. We took the bull to the sale. Gave the registration papers / EPD's to the auctioneer. He was bought right away at a good price. I know he had a couple of good years left on him.
