Round bales sticking onto hey spear

[jcummins]

I'm having trouble with round bales sticking on the quick attach hay spear on the FEL. One bale was stuck so bad....we ended up breaking the spear. A new spear, slightly smaller in circumference has been weld on...and I'm again having the same problem. I tried spraying on some white grease...it help some, but isn't the complete answer.

Anybody had this problem?

 

[Angus Cowman]

The main problems I hear are from guys not being able to get the large spikes in my hay especially if it is a single bale sitting in the open because of tightness of the bale
You might be having the same problem

have you tried the beveled high tensile spikes that seems to help as the larger round spikes won't penetrate the tight bales

 

[Roadapple]

I've always been able to get the spears in a bale even when baled tight, but it could be that the hay is a little wet and is a little gummy. Have you left the spear in the bale for a few mins. and then pull it out to find the spear is warm and wet. And while on the subject of hay, I watch people reaching into a bale about 8 in. and marveling over how nice and green the hay is. Most times it's green because the outside end of the bale is able to breath and the center can be carmelized and pasted together like a sheet of cardboard because of baling wet and too tight.

 

[jcummins]

I've always been able to get the spears in a bale even when baled tight, but it could be that the hay is a little wet and is a little gummy. Have you left the spear in the bale for a few mins. and then pull it out to find the spear is warm and wet. And while on the subject of hay, I watch people reaching into a bale about 8 in. and marveling over how nice and green the hay is. Most times it's green because the outside end of the bale is able to breath and the center can be carmelized and pasted together like a sheet of cardboard because of baling wet and too tight.

The bale isn't wet inside nor gummy...but no doubt the bale is tight. I don't think I could reach into the bale 8 inches.

 

[Bez+]

Do not spear the centre - come into the bale about half way down from the top to the centre.

If that keeps you from raising the bale high enough you will need a bigger tractor. 8)

Bez+

 

[bigbull338]

well im prolly gonna get blasted for this.but since the bale is rolled super tight.an you cant get your spear off the bale.have you tryed spearing it right in the center core where the bale is started.the spear might slipp out easier.but you may need to take your spear off an put bale forks on the FEL.

 

[TexasBred]

Never had this problem ever that I can remember. Even tight rolled hay the spear slips right in....but I do spear it as Bez says....at about 9-10 inches above the core.

 

[Bez+]

About the only time I have had a bale stick is when I have the angle of the spear up or down too much when I am placing the bale and backing out - it will drag the bale with the tractor. That means it is my fault - it is not sticking - it is my operation that is causing the problem - we have all done it at least once in our lives and most will do it again.

Lets face it - this is not a tight bale problem - unless you are talking tiny bales. Heck - you pick up a 800 or 2000 pound bale and point the spear straight down - the bale slides off - rarely if ever does it stay on. A little razzle dazzle with the spear angle and a quick short drop on the lift arms and the shake will bring the bale off - usually pointed straight down the bale can drop it off with no shaking.

I wonder if this operator has the spear pointed up or down on a bale placement and is then backing out with the spear off level and some heavy down pressure on the lift arms?

Sounds like the spear is off level when placing.

Or is the bale hanging on when the lift arms are in the air and the spear is pointed down? This seems very, very unlikely to me.

I have moved as many as 10,000 bales in one year - maybe more - for a lot of years and never run into this problem on a consistent basis - no matter what machine made the bales - and I have probably worked with as many different types of balers as anyone. Big, small, soft core, hard core, round, square, wrap, twine, red, green, yellow, plus some wierd stuff from off shore - and the beat goes on.

Sounds a little like there is more to this story than we are getting.

Pics or video please

Bez+

 

[hillsdown]

I have had them get stuck but it was usually always my fault (as Bez posted) or the bales had just gone through weeks of freezing then thawing etc and the inside of the hard core bale was tough as crap . I have never had a problem with soft core as long as the big spear goes in the middle of the bale.

Are you using a two spear or three spear fork ? I like the three better, they grab better and release better.

 

[jcummins]

This is happening when trying to put bales on a trailer. I think the trailer surface itself is aiding in not holding the bale, when you draw the tractor back. Drawing the fork out of the bale when it is on the ground isn't as much of an issue.

Bez with as many persons eyeballing the spear and the bale when it broke…I don't think we missed having everything lined up as to the bale and the spear. The first stuck bale using the original fork before it broke, I was on the trailer next to the bail. There were several guys there eye balling how level the bale and the hay fork etc, and was trying to give input. Nothing we did seem to work. The person operating the tractor tried putting a lot of pressure down on the bail, trying to make the bale hold on the trailer, and that is when it broke. On this last loading, another person was on the ground giving feedback on the alignment of the bale and the spear…I was working the tractor. I got everything loaded….but was fighting them not wanting to easily come off the spear. The bales in both instances were baled with a very old Vermeer baler that my son-in-law used…and others commented they have never seen a baler bale so tight. It will not be used again, since this was a one off baling deal they used my tractor, I used their baler kind of deal. Also I'm done moving hay with the trailer for this year, so I doubt I have any more problems this year. If I do when feeding, I'm going to have to change something. BTW…this last problem I had, I moved the point of the spear from dead center to half way been center and the top of the bale…that help, but still the bales did not want to come off easily.

The replacement spear is slightly smaller in diameter than this and is no more than a round solid steel rod, with the tip ground to a point. In this last process of having the same problem I notice I've now bent this spear slightly upward. That probably needs to be bent back, since it could be part of the problem on this last loading.

I'm nowhere near as experience with this as many on this board, but the problem occurred with several guys watching, and no one really understood the why to it. I see some much smaller spears on the internet….are these better?

 

[dun]

When you feed them set them on their end instead of their side.

 

[hillsdown]

Are you sure your bale fork isn't UPSIDE DOWN ??????????????

 

[SRBeef]

Thanks for posting the picture - a picture may be worth a thousand words as they say....

A bale spear should NEVER fail by breaking as shown in your picture. NEVER!

There is something wrong with the steel used in that spear. A spear should fail by bending but hardly ever do that. I'm not sure but think there is a related reason that spear would not esily come out of a bale.

I suspect that because it was such poor steel a larger diameter was used than ordinarily necessary.

I would STRONGLY suggest you purchase a FORGED, TAPERED spear with tapered receptacle and nut and have someone securely weld the receptacle to your frame and get that POS steel rod off of there. That thing breaking like that is downright dangerous.

Here is a link to the type of spear I am talking about.

http://www.hayspear.com/c=SCYkBiXVd...ay_bale_spear_Tapered_Sleeve_Nut__BS48TS.html

Most farm supply stores carry them also. Use a couple short pieces of flat bar to make sure the receptacle is soundly welded to your existing frame. Make sure the welder grinds any paint off of the welded areas before welding.

This type of FORGED tapered spear will come out of a bale pretty easily no matter how tight the bale is tied. The problem is not with your bale, it is with the spear. And trying to weld something to that crap steel is going to be dangerous also. jmho.

Jim

 

[Bez+]

Jammed for time but looked at the pic - that is a poor spear setup IMO - although it is very commonly used.

SRBeef is bang on - quality and setup are everything.

I use a single spear mostly - attached to the centre of the bottom bar of the quick attach for single bale feeding.

Yours is rigged to sit on the top bar and gives you a lot less verticle height.

My spear is different yet similar in the quality as suggested by SRBeef - however it is squared steel about 1.75 or thereabouts per side - sorry cannot remember - on each side and about 30 inches long - wish I had one here to give you the actual length - and made even stronger by light fluting. You do not need to go with a spear that is overly long. In my opinion a 48 inch spear is far too long. I will admit it would be a fine spear though - just not right for me.

I think I paid 1-200 bucks for the spears - or maybe for each of them - cannot remember - but I do remember thinking it was a lot of money at the time - I actually own three of them - and I bought them about 12 years ago. They taper about halfway out from the bracket to the point - fluting runs about 3/4's of the way to the point - maybe a bit further.

The spears actually fit into form fitted holes on the bottom bar of the quick attach and I am very particular about cleaning them out before I mount the spear(s) in new holes if I reconfigure for different bale types or loads. The threads for mounting the spears are always well cleaned before I tighten them to ensure there is no rotation of the spear in the mount over time - this prevents bending.

I usually only use one as stated in a centre bottom mount - but do use all three when moving big squares - one on each outside corner and one in the middle - all on the bottom of the quick attach - I usually move the square bales three at a time stacked - I can go to four high but it is rough when travelling across the field and is tough on the front end of the tractor - I have a safety bracket that I made to prevent the top one from rolling back down the loader into me and the cab.

I always mount the spears so they look like they are diamond shaped when looking from the point to the loader - in other words - looking at the spear head on. This makes each spear incredibly strong.

I can take the loader - set the single spear on a rock about half way down the length of the spear and lift the front wheels of the tractor off the ground - 5250 Case front wheel assist with cab - a heavy machine with no bend in the spear.

If I take my single spear and remove it - and place two spears on the quick attach - one on each outside corner and on the bottom bar of the quick attach - and using that home made safety bracket to prevent the top bale rolling back on me while in the cab - I can lift three 5 foot diametre bales in two with one on top configuration - another hefty load.

Nothing bends - I figure it is the fluting combined with the excellent quality steel and the way I mount them on the loader. Those spears are quite narrow - I can easily circle them with my hand with lots of finger room left over.

Even if they did slightly bend a bit I would simply loosen the retaining nut and rotate them 180 degrees and they would bend back!

Not cheap to buy but you get what you pay for - it is a one time purchase. Perhaps the fluting also helps with bale release. Buy the best and forget the rest - there are a lot of crappy setups out there.

Sorry - got to go - best to you

Bez+

 

[novatech]

I think I paid 1-200 bucks for the spears - or maybe for each of them - cannot remember - but I do remember thinking it was a lot of money at the time - I actually own three of them - and I bought them about 12 years ago. They taper about halfway out from the bracket to the point - fluting runs about 3/4's of the way to the point - maybe a bit further.

I pay $45.00 for replacement points the same as you describe. I have bought several as I tent to abuse them. I found out the hard way that once you bend them they will either snap or be very weak if you try and straighten them with heat. I do not have the single point but double and have never had a problem with the bale sticking.

 

[bigbull338]

i see the prob now.you boys are using those prefab replacement spears.you need to buy a custom made heavy duty bale spear.the main an baby spears are heavy duty.an they wont break or bend.

 

[Cowdirt]

jcummins, I have an old spear with the large diameter on the back lift arms and a quik attach spear with small diameter on the fel. Never had a problem with either sticking. If I were you I would take the broken spear out and replace it with a small diameter spear. Most places that sell replacement spears have adapters that can be purchased. Put the adapter in the original hole, weld it and then bolt-in the new tapered spear. BTW, if you tip the spear too far down and drive forward it may engage the ground and bend. Course I only know this because others have told me. ;-)

 

[jcummins]

I'm forming the opinion….

There is a much better solution as to spears, and I need to cut off what I have and get the right thing.
These bales are extremely tight.
The trailer aids in the problem….not gripping the bottom of the bale.

I'm using what I got though the feeding season, since dropping the bale on the ground or inside a feeder isn't where I'm having the problem. Makes one wonder why they built the spear the way they did in the first place.

 

[Bez+]

I'm forming the opinion….

There is a much better solution as to spears, and I need to cut off what I have and get the right thing.
These bales are extremely tight.
The trailer aids in the problem….not gripping the bottom of the bale.

I'm using what I got though the feeding season, since dropping the bale on the ground or inside a feeder isn't where I'm having the problem. Makes one wonder why they built the spear the way they did in the first place.

Lots of different bale types - a soft core bale would work well with your system

As for the trailer - if it is wood or it is sheeted or it is metal bars they are slippery.

If you have steel mesh you will find the bale grabs and sticks - all have advanages and disadvantages.

If you pick the bale up near the top of the bale it will stretch the outside edge and make disengagement easier.

The problem you are now indicating is quite different from what many of us initially understood.

Backing out can sometimes be assisted by the way you pick a bale up. A tight bale can be attacked with a "slightly" down angle on the spear and scooping with a bucket curl rather than a straight lift - dropping the loader arms as you advance into the bale causes the spear to drop into the bale - this will often losen the bale enough to make off loading a bit easier - the loader arm weight makes the spear entry point a bit larger.

Dropping loader arms and stopping a few inches above the intended placement point of the bale as you advance the bale over the wagon allows you to do a "stop and drop" and the bale will commence coming off the spear as you lower it to the wagon bed. This is not for triflers if you are a newbie - do this on the ground and away from people for LOTS of practice or you could hurt someone. Better always keep people away from the loading point while you load - period. Done right the bale starts to come off the spear but hits the deck or intended placement point before it is completely off the spear - preventing the bale form getting away on you.

However as you have the bale over the wagon and "uncurl" the bale onto the wagon bed - you now have a down angle on the spear - so if you slightly raise the loader as you back out you may find the bale weight will help it slide off the spear.

If your bales are net wrapped they are naturally slippery making many bale types not want to come off the spear by backing out. Not because of the spear but because the bail slides on the other bales or the wagon bed - additional down pressure is not always the answer as it causes the bale to be misshapen and the spear to "snap" down when you back out. In fact down pressure with the loader arms is often the last thing you want to do.

I believe this is what caused your spear to brake from the pic and info received.

Lots more but you will get on to it soon enough.

Get yourself some decent spears and away you go

Best to you

Bez+

 

[SRBeef]

I'm forming the opinion….

There is a much better solution as to spears, and I need to cut off what I have and get the right thing.
These bales are extremely tight.
The trailer aids in the problem….not gripping the bottom of the bale.

I'm using what I got though the feeding season, since dropping the bale on the ground or inside a feeder isn't where I'm having the problem. Makes one wonder why they built the spear the way they did in the first place.

You've got the right idea. I was originally thinking to saw off the current stub of that spear and weld the new tube receptacle for the FORGED, HEAT TREATED, tapered spear (42" is a good length for both 4 and 5 ft wide bales) you are going to buy to the top of the existing what appears to be a 3" x 3" tube. However given the poor quality of the spear used by whoever made that in the first place, that may be be crappy/cheap/thin wall steel tubing also.

If it were me I would take that assembly to a good weld/repair shop and have them plasma cut/arcair out the existing spear and weld the new receptacle in right where the old spear came out, through the center of the 3x3 tube, if they can. They could also weld some reinforcing steel around to spread the load into the 3x3. They should try to get the receptacle as level as possible, obviously.

This thru-the-tube arrangement is much stronger than welding it on top, even with gussets.

A lot of these bales weigh 1600 lb, or 3/4 of a ton. They are often at least partially overhead or over someones feet so this is a real safety issue also. It hink with a good 42" FORGED, tapered spear your problems will pretty much go away, regardless of how tight the bales are, especially once the spear gets polished up. You might want to just take a wire brush on a drill or grinder and take as much paint offf of the new spear as possible also but that is not really necessary most of the time.

Good luck. Jim