Rotational Grazing Question.

[novatech]

I come up with almost $2000 in fuel costs alone to keep up with harrowing everything with a 2 week rotation. Anything over 2 weeks will leave the patties so hard they will not break up. That is the ones the tumble bugs did not get or hoof action did not already take care of.
There is no doubt that harrowing will more evenly distribute the nutrients. I just do not feel there is enough gain to justify the time and expense of fuel and equipment.
The best grazing system I have ever witnessed was intensive grazing. The step above rotational grazing. The cows do it all with no tractor involvement at all.

 

[jungledave]

I am a cattle farmer in Ecuador, with a year round growing climate, doing rotational grazing on Setaria splendida. I too rotate based on pasture height, not time. There are areas of my farm where the pastures are ready in as little as 45 days, other areas where it takes up to 80 to reach the suitable height. During the rainy season, it can take 2 weeks longer for the pasture to be ready.
One thing I have learned through experience is small corals (half an acre) and small groups (4-8 head) work much better. Doing the math, I can handle 2-3 head per acre just with the pasture. In addition, taking full advantage of the tropical climate, I give chopped sugar cane and elephant grass with a barley, corn, and wheat mix with mineral salts added on a weekly basis, and for the yearling bulls, twice a week. This additional food often gives me a day or 2 extra in each coral. Its important to remember that a day or 2 extra in one coral, means all the other corals are maturing that much more.
My first angus bull will be ready (16 months) in March, and I am planning to give him extra sugar cane, etc. for the last 90 days. Makes me hungry just thinking about it.
Jungle Dave

 

[shaz]

I come up with almost $2000 in fuel costs alone to keep up with harrowing everything with a 2 week rotation. Anything over 2 weeks will leave the patties so hard they will not break up. That is the ones the tumble bugs did not get or hoof action did not already take care of.
There is no doubt that harrowing will more evenly distribute the nutrients. I just do not feel there is enough gain to justify the time and expense of fuel and equipment.
The best grazing system I have ever witnessed was intensive grazing. The step above rotational grazing. The cows do it all with no tractor involvement at all.

I've found it cost effective to drag at the end of hay feeding season one time. I unroll hay so the patties are ideally and evenly located. But, I'm on a five paddock system and I never get the immediate stocking rate high enough to justify dragging more often.

Also, someone mention compaction. How would you deal with outright "hardness of ground"? Same thing as compaction phrased another way. :?

FYI: I'm in Tokyo on business and it absolutly SUCKS AZZ THROUGH A COFFEE STRAW!!
If you ever wanted to go to Japan......DON'T!

 

[dun]

Also, someone mention compaction. How would you deal with outright "hardness of ground"? Same thing as compaction phrased another way. :?

You find the hardest spots and feed hay in the bale rings there. The cows will churn it up pretty well. After a season or 2 to find another spot and do the same. The spots where the caprock is exposed doesn;t soften up much but the general thin soil over rock does.

 

[HomePlaceAngus]

Agmantoo, I have a few questions. When do you tenatively,reseed, spray weeds, bush hog excess forage and do you have a defined breeding season. Thank you for any info.

I Start seeding in September if we have moisture. If moisture is inadequate to get the seed to germinate, I will wait and seed up until late November. I am seeding to accomplish two things. The reestablishment of any fescue that has been lost due to lack of rain and to gain supplemental feed if the fescue is lacking in growth. I do not spray weeds in the paddocks. I firmly believe that herbicides stress plants even if they survive the spraying. I do not turn the soil to prevent exposing buried weed seeds. The fescue tends to smother, by shading, most of the undesirable weeds. I bushhog when seedheads are forming to get the endophyte reduced and to kept the plants in a vegetative state. I run the bull with the herd yearround and I market feeder calves usually 4 times a year. I am striving the get an average price for the calves, not the low price when the market is gloated nor the high price when the supply is low. I also try to keep the forage demand spread over the year. Here is how things looked today

That's an awful good looking pasture agmantoo. :tiphat:

 

[ohiosteve]

Awesome pasture and cattle agman. I like your style. What is your thoughts on harrowing or dragging your pastures to distribute the manure piles? I have read that this is counter productive because the cattle avoid the areas covered in manure and urine because of the smell and if you spread it all around the entire pasture will have the smell of manure/urine thus reducing intake.
p.s. I could set up a picture of my best pasture that would look identical to your picture with the same slope and woodsline except my dozer parked in the middle would be a Komatsu. Seriously I had to do a double take it looked that similar, except I don't have that many black cattle. Very nice.

 

[agmantoo]

ohiosteve

What is your thoughts on harrowing or dragging your pastures to distribute the manure piles? I have read that this is counter productive because the cattle avoid the areas covered in manure and urine because of the smell and if you spread it all around the entire pasture will have the smell of manure/urine thus reducing intake.

Use the link below to go to where your question is currently being discussed. For me, I would hate to not be able to drag and spread the waste. As you probably know I am very profit oriented. If it was not beneficial for me to occur this expense I would forgo the effort. I am beginning to think that the number of cow pies/acre or some predetermined area may create a justification for a go or no go situation. For me, I am carrying a cow and her offspring on 1.4 acres providing all of their feed requirements all year. It is not uncommon for me to have 170,000+ lbs of cattle on one acre or less for 24 hours. If someone was only carrying, for example, 1 brood cow on 10 acres or so then it would be difficult to justify spreading. By spreading, my paddocks remain productive and uniform in color and the cattle will consume all the regrowth when they return. My intervals in returning the herd to a previously grazed paddock are long enough to break the parasites life cycle.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=74137

 

[JustSimmental]

We started out rotational grazing in 1982 and as fertilizer got more and more expensive we changed how we managed our cows. We decided that "limit grazing" would be the best option for us.
Our Overview

a. We don't use permanent pastures except for dry cows after weaning May 1st thru September 1; no store bought fertilizers added except Lime---ever.
b. We group cows by age, milk production and their attitudes.
c. Cows are offered High MG mineral year round.
d. The "Overlapping of Forages" is our secret to success as there is no time in their annual nutrition plan that they are not meeting or exceeding their nutritional requirements in ever physiological stage of production.
e. We compost our hay waste and manure and apply it to our row crop land and pastures, which eliminates the use of commercial fertilizer use.

1. We plant rye for grazing and apply fertilizer (pre-emergence) October 20 which will be ready by Thanksgiving.
1a. Apache clover is planted in mid-November 3 years in a row at 5-5-5 lbs per acre until establishment is completed by year 3; in permanent pastures set aside for this purpose only.

1b. We calve in mid-October to Dec 1. Cows that have just calved or calved before Thankgiving are fed hay that has been "juiced up" with Pro 20 from Haymaster, which has a CP content of 12% and a TDN of 55+%. Normally cows that enter the calving season in good to excellent body condition do fine 30 days post-calving on the Haymaster System.

1c. Nitrogen applied to Rye has a life of 90 days and if need be we re-apply N in January. This is important because a N build-up is quite possible and is deleterious to our "calendar of events" when following rye grazing with Millet in April. The month of May tends to be dry, in our area, and Nitrate build-up can and usually does happen when the N use isn't monitored closely.

1d. Breeding season (AI only) begins January 1 and is finished in under 40 days

1e. Rye grazing continues until mid-March, hay consumption is cut in half and lactating cows no longer need hay that has been "juiced up". Post-breeding a lactating cow's nutritional requirements decrease steadily and by March their calves are depending less and less on milk and are actively grazing.

2. Bred cows/ calves are limit grazed on Apache clover 4 hours per day and fed a medium to low quality grass hay for fill from March to weaning day in May.

2a. Weaning weights on heifer calves averaged 609 lbs in 2010 and bull calves averaged 770 lbs.

3. After weaning cows are placed on unfertilized permanent pastures until September

4. Heifer calves are separated by sex; pre-conditioned in May and placed on Millet (limit grazed) all summer.

5 Bull calves are also limit grazed on millet all summer and fed a 12% corn-based feed daily to give them a minimum of 3.3 lbs ADG. Bulls going to a forage or feed test station normally leave the ranch weighing over 1200 lbs.

6. Brood cows spend a lazy summer in the pastures.

*** On dry land Rye for limit-grazing you can expect a stocking rate of 3-4 cow calf pairs per acre. Rye normally has a CP content between 17 and 22% and a TDN of 70%.

**** On dry land millet limit grazed you can expect a stocking rate of 6-8 yearlings per acre. Millet normally has a CP content between 17 and 22% and a TDN of 71%, which blows permanent pastures away nutritionally speaking with a growth rate 5 times that of any perennial grass.

***** When you overlap your forage base there is never a sharp drop in nutrition, but instead a steady increase in nutrition over time.

November > March (Rye)
March > May (clover)
cows go to pastures post-weaning
May > Sept (millet) calves

JS

 

[Mid South Guy]

There is some good advice and excellent examples of different systems in this thread. One must keep in mind that the sole bottom line purpose for rotational grazing is to maximize the number of pounds, whether it be calves or finished beef, produced per acre of land. Thus making the land our limiting resourse. If land is not your limiting resourse, such as not having enough operating capital, equipment, animals, time, mgt skills, etc., then rotational grazing will be less of a benefit. You won't necessarily produce a lot more forage with rotational grazing (you will increase some), you just become much more efficient at utilizing it, and if you cannot take advantage of that increased efficiency, you don't gain any benefit.

 

[Mid South Guy]

We started out rotational grazing in 1982 and as fertilizer got more and more expensive we changed how we managed our cows. We decided that "limit grazing" would be the best option for us.
Our Overview

a. We don't use permanent pastures except for dry cows after weaning May 1st thru September 1; no store bought fertilizers added except Lime---ever.
b. We group cows by age, milk production and their attitudes.
c. Cows are offered High MG mineral year round.
d. The "Overlapping of Forages" is our secret to success as there is no time in their annual nutrition plan that they are not meeting or exceeding their nutritional requirements in ever physiological stage of production.
e. We compost our hay waste and manure and apply it to our row crop land and pastures, which eliminates the use of commercial fertilizer use.

1. We plant rye for grazing and apply fertilizer (pre-emergence) October 20 which will be ready by Thanksgiving.
1a. Apache clover is planted in mid-November 3 years in a row at 5-5-5 lbs per acre until establishment is completed by year 3; in permanent pastures set aside for this purpose only.

1b. We calve in mid-October to Dec 1. Cows that have just calved or calved before Thankgiving are fed hay that has been "juiced up" with Pro 20 from Haymaster, which has a CP content of 12% and a TDN of 55+%. Normally cows that enter the calving season in good to excellent body condition do fine 30 days post-calving on the Haymaster System.

1c. Nitrogen applied to Rye has a life of 90 days and if need be we re-apply N in January. This is important because a N build-up is quite possible and is deleterious to our "calendar of events" when following rye grazing with Millet in April. The month of May tends to be dry, in our area, and Nitrate build-up can and usually does happen when the N use isn't monitored closely.

1d. Breeding season (AI only) begins January 1 and is finished in under 40 days

1e. Rye grazing continues until mid-March, hay consumption is cut in half and lactating cows no longer need hay that has been "juiced up". Post-breeding a lactating cow's nutritional requirements decrease steadily and by March their calves are depending less and less on milk and are actively grazing.

2. Bred cows/ calves are limit grazed on Apache clover 4 hours per day and fed a medium to low quality grass hay for fill from March to weaning day in May.

2a. Weaning weights on heifer calves averaged 609 lbs in 2010 and bull calves averaged 770 lbs.

3. After weaning cows are placed on unfertilized permanent pastures until September

4. Heifer calves are separated by sex; pre-conditioned in May and placed on Millet (limit grazed) all summer.

5 Bull calves are also limit grazed on millet all summer and fed a 12% corn-based feed daily to give them a minimum of 3.3 lbs ADG. Bulls going to a forage or feed test station normally leave the ranch weighing over 1200 lbs.

6. Brood cows spend a lazy summer in the pastures.

*** On dry land Rye for limit-grazing you can expect a stocking rate of 3-4 cow calf pairs per acre. Rye normally has a CP content between 17 and 22% and a TDN of 70%.

**** On dry land millet limit grazed you can expect a stocking rate of 6-8 yearlings per acre. Millet normally has a CP content between 17 and 22% and a TDN of 71%, which blows permanent pastures away nutritionally speaking with a growth rate 5 times that of any perennial grass.

***** When you overlap your forage base there is never a sharp drop in nutrition, but instead a steady increase in nutrition over time.

November > March (Rye)
March > May (clover)
cows go to pastures post-weaning
May > Sept (millet) calves

JS

This one of the best examples of a limit/rotational grazing management system I've seen. It is based on the stage of production of the cattle in conjunction with the seasonal weather patterns. It ensures the cattle with the highest nutritional requirements get the highest quality forage, and those with the lowest requirement get the lowest quality, and maximizes the use of the productive land. -- Well done!

 

[Goodlife]

Hats of to you Agmantoo :tiphat:

Great looking pasture and a real feel for how to tend it in a way good for the earth, cattle and you.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Walker]

Agmantoo, How close do you graze your fescue in winter months.

 

[agmantoo]

Agmantoo, How close do you graze your fescue in winter months.

Walker,
I take the fescue down rather close, somewhere around 3 inches. In wet weather it will look closer as the cattles feet will push the residual grass into the top soil. It looks worst than it really is. The organic matter seems to benefit the paddocks and they recover rapidly in the Spring. Though I have tried, I have never been able to match the herd size to the growth of the fescue over the seasons. I settled on trying to take my carrying capacity on stockpiled fescue over Winter as the controlling factor for establishing my herd size to my acreage. PS....I try to never let thatch build in the fescue.

 

[James T]

Agmantoo, How close do you graze your fescue in winter months.

Walker,
I take the fescue down rather close, somewhere around 3 inches. In wet weather it will look closer as the cattles feet will push the residual grass into the top soil. It looks worst than it really is. The organic matter seems to benefit the paddocks and they recover rapidly in the Spring. Though I have tried, I have never been able to match the herd size to the growth of the fescue over the seasons. I settled on trying to take my carrying capacity on stockpiled fescue over Winter as the controlling factor for establishing my herd size to my acreage. PS....I try to never let thatch build in the fescue.

Do you have any particular way of dealing with any thatch?

 

[agmantoo]

Thatch control was something that was difficult for me to address in times past. I was wanting as much grass as I could grow and I failed to realize that I could have too much dead or dormant grass that was not removed. Once I realized that the thatch was reducing the stands and production of good forage, I had a mess. To correct the problem I ceased to use commercial nitrogen in the Spring. I have since ceased to use commercial fertilizer. My PH was on the acidic side and I improved that. I knew that I had little soil activity from earthworms and other organisms and I stopped using pesticides/herbicides. Earth worms are abundant now where I had none. I now also only worm cattle that have some visual indication of possible need. Keeping the grass clipped frequently to encourage it to remain in a growth stage helped. Manure patties are spread to improve the distribution of the micro organisms. I am somewhat fanatical in avoiding soil compaction as I want my grass to develop very deep roots to give it stamina. I will at times let the cattle walk the excessive organic stems and leaves into the soil to aid decomposition of thatch. If I do that I will broadcast some grass seed if the timing is right. Doing so will give some new growth to replace the grass that was damaged by the thatch. All this may seem time consuming and somewhat unnecessary but the results will substantiate the benefits. I now maintain a cow and calf (calf sold @550 lbs) all year per 1.4 acres and the extension folks state for my area 1 1/2 acres are required during the growing season and hay for 5 months.