Rookie Looking For Answers To Some Basics

[adpostel]

I have already searched and read several articles, posts, and have even emailed some folks. But its kind of hard to have questions answered when your so new and are still trying to understand alot of the lingo.

I have a small venture going on with a family friend. He has some land in Central Texas and is setup for at least a few calves. He also has a friend that has a dairy farm with Holstein/Jerseys and the friend is giving us what is supposed to be a decent deal for the bull calves that are of no use to them. I have already read about Dairy Cows for Beef and have learned quite a bit. I feel like I need some help putting the pieces of the puzzle together, so I have sought out the BEST Cattle Forum on the internet, ;-) .

We are getting 10 calves that will be just off the bottle. I am not even sure how old they are yet, but I think he said 2 monthsish?
We are also getting 3 calves that are a little older, maybe 4 months old. These three are separated from the younger ones.
The objective is to get these calves at a low initial cost, and fatten them up for a couple of months hopefully to around 350ish 400 lbs. Then take them to auction.

1st question is this process called. Is this like a mini-stockyard? feeder calves/beef? I have read where people have done this, but I am not sure exactly what it is called in the world of ranching.

2) When looking at auction pricing reports, what grade would these be , so I can get an idea of what they may bring at auction.

3) What is the best process to do what I'm talking about? I don't mind reading and searching at all, but again, I am not sure exactly what this process is referred to, so I want to be sure I am reading and searching about the right thing.

4) How and what to feed them to maximize the weight so we can go to auction at 350-400 lbs in a couple of months. ( and I have read, but I don't even know what roughage is, grain, wheat, cracked/rolled corn? I read these things, but I am so new to what I need to be looking at buying, so I am trying to get an idea of what I should get to feed/supplement them.

I am sorry if my questions seem so basic, but I am trying to get a handle on this new venture for me. Eventhough it may seem silly to have gotten into something that I am so new to, the investment isn't gonna hurt me, but I'd rather read and learn as much as possible to try and gain a return.

Also, if you have a suggestion on a different way to maximize this investment, I would be interested in that as well. We are looking to do no more than 10-15 head at a time maybe 2-3 times a year. So obviously not trying to get rich here, just trying to make a little profit.

 

[SRBeef]

I don't know a whole lot about raising dairy bulls but what I do know from a friend who has tried it is that they tend to die on you. It is not as easy as it sounds. Others can add more. Good luck. Jim

 

[mjnetex]

When you look at auction reports, don't assume they even INCLUDE dairy-cross calves, quite often, if not
always, they don't, you should call the auction barn NOW and ask them (they would lower the average so much they
leave them out, I forget their excuse). Ask them what DAIRY-CROSS steers the age you will be selling usually bring per lb.
I'd check several auction barns re this.

You might bring in coccidiosis, which you can't get rid of, EVER--if a calf develops diarrhea, immediately take
a fecal sample to your vet to check for that, it's common. (it stays in the soil and is only a problem if a calf ingests
enough to make it sick, it can and will happen occasionally if it is in your soil--I think most dairies have it, not sure--anybody else
know about this?). It's very treatable but you have to recognize it, if you don't quickly enough, it will permanently damage
the calf's intestine.

Ask your vet what antibiotics to keep on hand, have needles and syringes the right sizes. Hopefully at this age the calves will be healthy.

 

[Kingfisher]

Good morning. Where in Central Texas?

 

[bigbull338]

from what i read your raising holstein or jersey bull calves to 350lbs from weaning.well at 350lbs youll be lucky to get .65 or .75 a lb for them.an that depends on the market for that day.you will also need to feed them 5lbs of grain a hd a day or more.

 

[mjnetex]

Also, always keep a small bottle of Banamine on hand. Calves that age can get a tummy-ache which Banamine
will cure, at least that was my experience with dairy-cross calves that age. If they kick at their belly, give Banamine! Call vet if that
doesn't work, it always worked for me.
Overall, take time to just stand and carefully observe your calves at least once a day, PREFERABLY TWICE A DAY, esp. the front and the back! Anything odd--anything at all, however tiny-- catches your eye, address it immediately on forum or with your vet.

 

[adpostel]

Good morning. Where in Central Texas?

Seguin/Stockdale Area

 

[adpostel]

OH Ok, so what were trying to do here is with whats called Dairy-Cross Calves. And Auction houses will be familiar with the market on these, which are obviously different than the grades/types that are listed on auction market reports? Is this correct.

 

[dun]

Could also be straight dairy, check prices at the salebarn on both

 

[cowboy43]

Call Seguin Cattle Co. Auction on Hwy 46 phone 830-379-9955 ask for Benno he can tell you what they are worth now, not what they will be worth when you sell. You are correct in checking this project out before going into it. Because with the price of feed this winter you can loose money real easy if they have to be fed all the time you have them, for a sorry calf will eat as much as a good calf , the reason you are gettin them cheap is because they will be cheap when you sell. their is no market for them in this area. At that age they take special care to keep from stunting and going to all belly, will look like little pigmes. don't know if that is spelled right but I mean little black people with big bellies.

 

[mjnetex]

I raised about 250 mostly dairy cross, some straight dairy calves on bottles and nurse cows, and I know I don't have the knowledge
to look at a calf and tell if it will be a money-maker or money-loser, even after that, there are people that do, but it takes
experience and learning from people with experience. Verrrry easy to lose money. The Brahma-Holstein and Brangus-Holstein
did the best for me, of course the Holstein heifers made money. Some of the straight Holstein steers did okay, some didn't.
Also, you also never know for sure whether they got their colostrum or not if you weren't there!
And you can work yourself to death trying to save a sick one. But these were babies.

 

[F350]

Call Seguin Cattle Co. Auction on Hwy 46 phone 830-379-9955 ask for Benno he can tell you what they are worth now, not what they will be worth when you sell. You are correct in checking this project out before going into it. Because with the price of feed this winter you can loose money real easy if they have to be fed all the time you have them, for a sorry calf will eat as much as a good calf , the reason you are gettin them cheap is because they will be cheap when you sell. their is no market for them in this area. At that age they take special care to keep from stunting and going to all belly, will look like little pigmes. don't know if that is spelled right but I mean little black people with big bellies.[/quote]

I'm glad I wasn't drinking tea when I read that. Too FUNNY!!! :nod:

 

[adpostel]

Well I spoke to the market manager over at the Gonzales Auction, and he was very nice. He explained the same things alot of you are telling me. He said there is a market, and a profit can be had, but it will be small, thats assuming everything is done right. He did say that for what we are trying to do, we will spend just as much time and money on fattening up these Jerseys and Holsteins as we would a crossbreed. The cost for the crossbreed would be a little more initially to get the calf, but once taken to auction the returns would certainly be greater than a Jersey or Holstein. Well, this is just my first go around with this. The guy I am partnering with seems to know what we are gonna do. He did explain to me that what we are doing would be more of a hobby with the possibility of a small return. I don't mind that. The initial investment is small. The main reason I even considered doing it is because he is a family friend and albeit small, he has the property, pens and equipment already, so there is no expense there. Just the cost of the calves and feed for now. Maybe if it goes well and I get to learn more about it, we could go into getting another breed, such as a crossbreed or something. By the way, what exactly is considered a "crossbreed", is it just any variation of one breed with another, such as Brangus, Braford, and so forth? and what would be the best crossbreed for starters to do what we are doing? Thank You so much to everyone that has responded. I do realize that I am dippin my nose into somethin new and I know nothing about, but I am excited and hopeful, and when I told my kids about it, they were all SUPER EXCITED. I imagine there are alot worse things one could spend their money on than an interesting hobby/learning experience/investment..... :tiphat:

 

[dun]

Brangus and I suppose Brafords are pretty much considered breeds but they are a composit of several breeds that have been bred the same way long enough to me considered "American" breeds. Crossbreeding is simply breeding pure breds to another purebred, i.e. Holstein and Angus. Crossbreeding can also been done using more breeds to make 3, 4, 7 , 10 way crosses.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

When you get ready to market these dairy calves, I would suggest you haul them to a sale where there are more buyers for that type of calf. The 2 sales I know of that have more than 1 buyer for these type calves are West Auction (15 miles north of Waco on I-35) and Stephenville Cattle in Stephenville. On Thursdays at West Auction there are at least 2 or 3 buyers for these type calves.

Good money can sometimes be made by buying calves that are not that common in a particular area and selling them in an area where they are more common.

Just another 2 cents worth.

 

[cowboy43]

If you can get your kids involved it would be worth any money you would loose. So go for it get the kids out of the house and learn about agriculture and where our food comes from. So many kids thinks our food comes from the grocery store,

 

[adpostel]

If you can get your kids involved it would be worth any money you would loose. So go for it get the kids out of the house and learn about agriculture and where our food comes from. So many kids thinks our food comes from the grocery store,

I think you are spot on, the kids can't wait to get back there to feed the "COWS" and learn more about them. Last night our 17 year old daughter who is a Senior this year and is in FFA and the Vet Tech program at school informed us that she was selected to do an internship at NASA/Johnson Space Center for their Longhorn Project. She will be teaching elementary kids on field trips about Longhorn genetics, then help them feed and pet the show steers. We are very proud of her. My wife took her to NASA yesterday to get her security clearance and badge. I'm sure that is pretty cool for a High School kid.

 

[Jasper]

That is great for your daughter. Going to NASA, You must be proud of her.
Keep them kids involved!
Jasper

 

[jack1234]

By the way, what exactly is considered a "crossbreed", is it just any variation of one breed with another, such as Brangus, Braford, and so forth?

Yes a crossbreed is just that-- the offspring of two different breeds mated together. As dun mentioned, Braford and Brangus are technically breeds unto themselves now as opposed to simply a cross (but you have the right idea).

In your context, the guy is talking about a specific situation: where the dairy bred the milk cows to a beef breed bull. Since the calf is 50% of a beef breed, it will grow better and thus command a price that's higher than a 100% dairy calf, but still less than a 100% beef breed.

I don't know what yall's setup is, but I think the least hassle, the smallest learning curve, and most profitable route might be to get a nurse cow and then put a few orphaned beef calves on her (these can be bought at auction). The key is finding a good nurse cow. By this I'm referring mainly to the cow's willingness to take on strange calves (as opposed to simply her milk production). I'd also look to buy calves that are say 1-2 months old as opposed to newborns. Having even a few weeks of life outside the womb makes them much more resilient and it (hopefully) means that they received colostrum from their mother.

The advantage to this setup is it's less labor intensive, there's less death risk to the calves (I think), and the calves will bring you full price upon their sale (since 100% beef breed).

 

[adpostel]

Right, I think that is eventually what the setup will become. We are not looking to do more than 10 to 15 calves at a time. For now, we have a good line on basically orphaned Dairy bull calves. Not alot of profit here, but a good learning curve, and as long as we don't loose money, we can move onto other types of calves. We are getting these bull calves around 2-4 months old, and they will all be off the bottle by that time. When we get them, we may do a little milk replacer, but start them on feed, hay and water immediately. So once we go through the rotation once or twice, and our setup has proven itself with the less expensive dairy calves, then I'd be willing to do some orphaned beef or crossbred calves. I realize they will cost more upfront, but the same amount of work and money will go into them feeding them out before going to auction, with a better profit potential, I hope. And I tell you what, those Brafords and Red Polls sure are some handsome ones......