Ring the Bell

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The only bell my calves have ever rang is tied to my bottom line at end of year. Usually it's not in the check I brought home but how much I spent getting there.
And if a chip goes out on my JD tractor and I miss planting wheat so I have to buy hay and pay for tractor repair... that's in the tally, right?
 
We've tried several things to shorten the calving season and we just can't get there. I'm not gonna stop trying to shorten it up though. The best I've heard in this area is 60 days with 10% opens. I think we were at 70% in 45 days last year and the rest just drug out. I'm all ears on suggestions.
Do you raise your own replacements?

Only save animals from cows over eight years old and that have always been in the first fifty percent of your calving window. Use bulls from cows that fit the same criteria.
 
Travelr makes some good points, but it's never about the GROSS, it's always about the NET. How much less can Warren take for those "scrub" calves to net more than those calves that "ring the bell"?
Since I've never mentioned the gross as opposed to the net, I doubt that's anything anyone knows how I consider those results.
 
Do you raise your own replacements?

Only save animals from cows over eight years old and that have always been in the first fifty percent of your calving window. Use bulls from cows that fit the same criteria.
We have in the past but plan on starting a continuous program this year.

We'll keep the biggest heifers that best suit our program. I'm not keeping a slow grower out of an 8 yo cow because she is the first calf born. Good bags, good feet, easy keeping, easy going, it's not that complicated. The only other thing I can think of is she needs to be Black hided.
 
We have in the past but plan on starting a continuous program this year.

We'll keep the biggest heifers that best suit our program. I'm not keeping a slow grower out of an 8 yo cow because she is the first calf born. Good bags, good feet, easy keeping, easy going, it's not that complicated. The only other thing I can think of is she needs to be Black hided.
Why would you have a slow grower out of an eight year old cow? Or don't you cull a cow that produces a slow grower before that?
 
We have in the past but plan on starting a continuous program this year.

We'll keep the biggest heifers that best suit our program. I'm not keeping a slow grower out of an 8 yo cow because she is the first calf born. Good bags, good feet, easy keeping, easy going, it's not that complicated. The only other thing I can think of is she needs to be Black hided.
I'm confused on this. If you arent going to eat her, how much is her slower growth hurting you, especially when many would argue that quick weight gain or quick maturity might be antagonistic to fertility and longevity in a cow? How fast do you really need a replacement to grow? I'm not saying you can keep a stunted dink, but then again, if an 8 year old is consistently dropping dinks, why did you let her get to 8? For me, weaning weight is not a big deciding factor in a replacement heifer but age of dam and early calving definitely are.
 
We have in the past but plan on starting a continuous program this year.

We'll keep the biggest heifers that best suit our program. I'm not keeping a slow grower out of an 8 yo cow because she is the first calf born. Good bags, good feet, easy keeping, easy going, it's not that complicated. The only other thing I can think of is she needs to be Black hided.
Look, you have to start somewhere. Breeding consistently would be my highest priority. That's why I used the criteria I offered. That's the thing you asked about. The rest follow as the herd comes back to being fertile. My absolute last criteria is the color of the cow as long as she will produce a solid black calf.
 
They need to fit my program and be big enough to breed and fall in sync with the rest of the herd. Naturally these will be the earliest born calves. There's a ton of reason a calf can fall behind in growth though and I don't plan on keeping any that I don't feel will fall in line just because her mama always raised good calves in the past. Yesterday we sold a black cow that was so old she turned gray. She was the second to last to calve last year but she raised one of the biggest calves. I'd definitely be more inclined to keep one out of her than some of the earlier calvers. I'd say it's more important to retain the heifers that breed in the first 45 days than going by her family history but that's just my thinking. I'd also say if you think you'll need 10 replacements you probably better try and breed 15 or 20.
 
Travelr makes some good points, but it's never about the GROSS, it's always about the NET. How much less can Warren take for those "scrub" calves to net more than those calves that "ring the bell"?
I don't have any "scrub" calves, but sure do have what some would call scrub cows. But this is an excellent example. Mine are pre-sold at weaning ( 6 mos) for $2.75/lb steers, $2.50 per lb heifers. The man buying them sold us his 400 cow herd, that he knows has the calves he needs every year. Takes 4 mos conditioning then 4 months on corn before he sells them. Steers wean at about 55olbs and up, heifers wean at 500 and up. So averaging $1500 per steer, $1250 per heifer. Got a little over 700 cows, that cost me from $250 to $1100 for the last 8 I bought. By buying a load and selling about half of each load, I have about $7900 in those 700 cows, or about $113 per cow. If I had to buy some replacements straight out today though, they are gonna cost me $1500 and up.

He has contracted to buy 50 more calves from a guy with 50 registered Brangus cows bred to black Simmental and red Charolais bulls. The man is giving him $3.35/lb for the steers, and $3/lb for the heifers. Steers are weaning at 700lbs and up. Heifers at 650 lbs and up. But he knows these will be on the growth feed regimen for 90 days or less, and on corn 90 days. So, $2300 per steer vs my $1500 per steer. $800 more. But his cows? Until 3-4 years ago he was a Brangus seed stock producer, and these cows cost $3500-$5000 each. Some even more. (he won't be replacing them with registered cows of this caliber, but this is what he has now, When he does have to get a replacement though, he will be paying about $3k per head for cows that will work.) 50 of his steers will sell for $40k more than 50 of mine will. If these were out of $3k replacements he will have to buy, that is $150k of cows. If mine were out of $1500 cows that I had to buy right now, I would have $75k in cows. So he'd be paying $75k more to get that extra $40k for the calves. Or another way to look at it , $1500 per cow more for one that weans a steer calf worth $800 more. With us having to feed some hay this winter, our inputs per cow are about the same, except he does vaccinate, worm, etc. But that is what, maybe $50-$60 a year per head at the most?

So this is a good example of what the original thread was about. The other dude has a LOT better quality cows, worth several times more than mine. And his calves sell for $700 (heifers) to $800 (steers) more than mine. But mine will make more money...profit...than his will. Right now, with my cows averaging costing $113 a head, and his $3500 to $5k a head...a heck of a lot more profit. But even if a catastrophe happened and wiped both herds out tonight and next year I had a bunch of $1500 cows, and he had replaced his with $3k a head cows, I would still make more profit than him.

The bulls I use are the key. If I used just any old Angus or Brangus, or even a black Simm like his, a lot of our calves wouldn't bring that much.
 
I rang the dadgum bell today with all sorts of calves split off trader cows. Cows did well too. The nice thing about a sale is this...
There's someone there looking to buy just about everything.
And I think that's where some of the gross vs net confusion is, at least in this thread.

Trader cattle vs keeper type.

For keeper type cows the best are uniform cows of whatever flavor you prefer. Bred to a good bull to calve within a certain window.
Makes for a very uniform calf crop. I know, I had it that way at one point. I had a small herd of 14 or 15 cows bred to a hereford bull every year. Those cows produced a pretty uniform crop of red and black baldy calves. At one point I had em all calved out in less than 30 days. They sold in two groups. Heifers and steers. It was very convenient and the prices were uniform and they did well.

However, I've made much more actual profit trading cattle, than I ever did even with that nice uniform group. I'll post sale results from today somewhere soon
 
We've tried several things to shorten the calving season and we just can't get there. I'm not gonna stop trying to shorten it up though. The best I've heard in this area is 60 days with 10% opens. I think we were at 70% in 45 days last year and the rest just drug out. I'm all ears on suggestions.
Is your mineral right? Are you breeding on the flush of best grass, Semen test bulls every year?
 
I don't have any "scrub" calves, but sure do have what some would call scrub cows. But this is an excellent example. Mine are pre-sold at weaning ( 6 mos) for $2.75/lb steers, $2.50 per lb heifers. The man buying them sold us his 400 cow herd, that he knows has the calves he needs every year. Takes 4 mos conditioning then 4 months on corn before he sells them. Steers wean at about 55olbs and up, heifers wean at 500 and up. So averaging $1500 per steer, $1250 per heifer. Got a little over 700 cows, that cost me from $250 to $1100 for the last 8 I bought. By buying a load and selling about half of each load, I have about $7900 in those 700 cows, or about $113 per cow. If I had to buy some replacements straight out today though, they are gonna cost me $1500 and up.

He has contracted to buy 50 more calves from a guy with 50 registered Brangus cows bred to black Simmental and red Charolais bulls. The man is giving him $3.35/lb for the steers, and $3/lb for the heifers. Steers are weaning at 700lbs and up. Heifers at 650 lbs and up. But he knows these will be on the growth feed regimen for 90 days or less, and on corn 90 days. So, $2300 per steer vs my $1500 per steer. $800 more. But his cows? Until 3-4 years ago he was a Brangus seed stock producer, and these cows cost $3500-$5000 each. Some even more. (he won't be replacing them with registered cows of this caliber, but this is what he has now, When he does have to get a replacement though, he will be paying about $3k per head for cows that will work.) 50 of his steers will sell for $40k more than 50 of mine will. If these were out of $3k replacements he will have to buy, that is $150k of cows. If mine were out of $1500 cows that I had to buy right now, I would have $75k in cows. So he'd be paying $75k more to get that extra $40k for the calves. Or another way to look at it , $1500 per cow more for one that weans a steer calf worth $800 more. With us having to feed some hay this winter, our inputs per cow are about the same, except he does vaccinate, worm, etc. But that is what, maybe $50-$60 a year per head at the most?

So this is a good example of what the original thread was about. The other dude has a LOT better quality cows, worth several times more than mine. And his calves sell for $700 (heifers) to $800 (steers) more than mine. But mine will make more money...profit...than his will. Right now, with my cows averaging costing $113 a head, and his $3500 to $5k a head...a heck of a lot more profit. But even if a catastrophe happened and wiped both herds out tonight and next year I had a bunch of $1500 cows, and he had replaced his with $3k a head cows, I would still make more profit than him.

The bulls I use are the key. If I used just any old Angus or Brangus, or even a black Simm like his, a lot of our calves wouldn't bring that much.

Could you show some pictures so we do not think you are back to your old bull crap. Thanks in advance.:cool:
 
So here is my question. If you go to the sale barn with a load of calves... do you make more money selling 20 calves that look high quality and very similar... or selling twenty calves that are a box of crayons in color, size, and physical type?
Obviously the group of 20 #1 calves are going to BRING the most, but that doesn't mean they MADE you the most. There are a lot of things thst factor into that, amount paid for cow, efficiency of the cow, weaning weight ratio to cows weight, how well she breeds back, how well she works in your environment, the list could go on and until you have that cow a few years you're not going to have that data to determine she was a number 1 cow. I've also seen cows produce good calves out of certain bulls but not out of other bulls, that'd be hard to determine until it happens. I'd say it's easier to save number 1 replacement heifers than it is to buy number 1 cows because you have maternal data already but then there's the cost to get them to a calf ready to sell and lost opportunity so there are still variables. My thoughts are it's best to have a cow that will pay for herself in the same market as you purchased the cow in, which is why assume the buyers in my previous post focused on #2 types , they knew they could probably pay for the cow with one calf.
 
Silver I think that is the way it should be done. Sadly that is not the case in most places. I would be a little uneasy with my name tied to auction results. Is this on online auction or the type you unload what you have on the day of the sale and it goes to the high bidder. As always the devil is in the details.
 
Our auction mart publishes a post sale summary that lists every lot sold, the seller's names, buyer and weight.

Barn I sell them just lists a range of prices. Then has an * at the bottom with this note "NON VACCINATED, UNHEALED, OVER FLESHY AND LESSER QUALITY
CATTLE CAN SELL SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER THAN RANGES ABOVE".
 

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